The Life Stylist Podcast
JW joins The Life Stylist Podcast to talk about how corporate success, tainted by alcohol addiction, led him on life-changing trips to the South Pacific and Southeast Asia where he discovered the botanical brain-enhancing plant medicines Kratom and Kava.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 I want to take a moment to share with you my brand new eyewear company called Gilded by Luke's story. My goal was creating this brand was to tackle the problem of blue, light and bad fashion design with one simple solution. Blue light is a color of light needed during the day, especially at sunrise from its natural source, the sun to release cortisol, promote alertness and focus, and to set our body's natural circadian rhythm. Artificial blue light from sources such as device screens, TVs, street lamps, city lights, and car lights is a distorted color of light with detrimental effects on our health. So taking in artificial blue light after dark tricks our bodies into thinking it's still daylight, which disrupts our circadian rhythm and prevents restorative sleep. Taking in artificial blue light during the day is disruptive to our health because it lacks the healing red and infrared light with which blue light is balanced in sunlight, and a disrupted circadian rhythm and lack of great sleep leads to a decrease in vitality and to long-term chronic health issues, such as obesity, anxiety, depression, diabetes, cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, heart disease, and autoimmune diseases.
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Speaker 2 00:02:18 I think there's a lot of value here. When I say value, not so much for me. I mean, I, I've gotten my personal value out of it, but I think there's value in helping people with a lot of different things that they're dealing with, uh, whether that being, you know, trying not to use synthetic opioids or depression or anxiety or, you know, performance, athletic performance, what, whatever it's, you know, if consumed, you know, in moderation. And, uh, it's a, you know, it's a wonderful plant medicine.
Speaker 0 00:02:57 Oh yeah, folks, this episode is a burner. It's called Feel and Free Legal Plant Medicines for the Journey of Life with Jerry Ross. And before we get started, I'd like to let you know that you can find the show notes and links for this episode@lukestory.com slash feel free. That's luke story.com/feel free. Okay, this conversation is one of my all time favorites. Our guest is my friend Jerry Ross, otherwise known as jw. He and I met a few months back after our mutual friend Josh Trent from the Wellness Force Podcast. Turn me on to this plant medicine drink called Feel Free. And I gotta say, me JW and especially feel free, hit it off immediately. And it's rare that I discover an herbal product that really gets my attention. And this one certainly did, but it wasn't just the drink that got my attention, it was Jerry and his incredible story and journey.
Speaker 0 00:03:48 Jerry's a fascinating guy, and although he's a couple years older than I, we have so much in common, including, and not limited to our past history with alcohol abuse and how we both overcame that treacherous life of drinking way too much. So this conversation is one that's close to my heart, and it was equally as inspiring as it was educational. I was super into his journey, his mission, his pain to purpose story, but I also learned a ton about these incredible plant medicines. Here's just a taste of what we cover in this conversation. First, we cover the interconnected web of how we met through Josh Trent and our friend Cal Callahan and Paul Czech, and how that all came together. Jerry's incredible story of turning suffering into success, his experience achieving success early in life, and how money can sometimes create more problems than joy using alcoholism means to escape.
Speaker 0 00:04:43 And the step he took that finally allowed him to stop relying upon it, discovering the deeper and underlying issues. Once he sobered up, then Jerry shares his story of traveling to Asia and the South Pacific, and the turning point for him once he found Crao and kava the history of their use and how they actually work to tress and anxiety. Then we cover the inception of the Feel Free drink and the extensive research that went into creating it, the many impactful benefits people are reporting after using. Feel Free, the real deal about CRA's potentially addictive properties and how to use it safely, how feel free compares to other plant medicines. We also get Jerry's take on the use of other plant medicines, including cannabis. And finally, how Feel Free has given Jerry a new sense of purpose. So this conversation is one that is sure to educate and inspire. And I'm guessing that by the end of this conversation, there's gonna be a few of you that want to try feel free. So Jerry was kind enough to offer an incredible listener discount of 40% off. To get on board with that, just click on the link in your show notes or visit botanic tonics.com and use the code Luke 40 to save a massive 40% off for a limited time only. That's botanic tonics.com. And with that, my fellow Earth Travelers, let's go ahead and jump into this conversation with Mr. Jerry Ross.
Speaker 0 00:06:09 Jw. Good to see you,
Speaker 2 00:06:10 Man. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 0 00:06:12 Every time I, every time I start these recordings, we have a really fun little chat before, and then I have this awkward start where I'm like, now we're starting <laugh>. So I listened to some podcasts and they just, the person walks in and that's the beginning of the show, right? They just start kind of chatting, but I always feel like I need to have an official start. So here we are, folks. Uh, welcome back to Texas.
Speaker 2 00:06:31 It's good to be here.
Speaker 0 00:06:32 Are you originally from
Speaker 2 00:06:33 Here? Originally from Dallas? Yes.
Speaker 0 00:06:34 Oh, you are? Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 Yeah. I been out in California now for about 15 years.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 So you did the opposite. We're all fleeing California. You flee Texas
Speaker 2 00:06:43 <laugh>. I'm actually thinking about coming back though. Are you?
Speaker 0 00:06:46 Yeah. What's the impetus of that? Uh, pondering.
Speaker 2 00:06:50 Um, there's several things, but, um, you know, we're looking at, uh, you know, specific to feel free. We're looking at, you know, where it makes more sense to put the next production plan in. So it may be here in Austin.
Speaker 0 00:07:02 I hope it is. Yeah. Because I wanna come down to the plant and see how it all works. I have this fascination with how things are made. Yeah. And how things, anything I look at, I mean, I look at this velvet couch, I'm like, all right. So, you know, did they put the velvet on first and then put it in, like how things are made Yes. Is really
Speaker 2 00:07:20 Interesting to me. Same, same with me. Really? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:07:22 Yeah. There's that show. I don't know if they still have it. It's like how it's made and they, they just like take some random product, you know, at tire and show how it goes into the mold. And, uh, I'm like such a geek with that stuff. <laugh>. Uh, so, you know, we're gonna be talking about your journey and I always like to get people's origin story, but there are also times where I kind of just want to jump in to the meat of it. And you've created something really unique, uh, in this thing, which those watching on the camera, we'll see this drink called Feel Free. I had half one on the way over here, and that was really how I got introduced to you. So I want just shake it up a little bit and ignore my notes. Okay. And, and have you start out, what is Feel free,
Speaker 2 00:08:06 Feel free is, uh, plant medicine that's TE tonic, uh, all natural as you said. It's a combination of, uh, kava and c prum. It's, uh, five parts kava to one part C Prum. Um, and it's, um, it does a lot of different things. It's an adaptogen, um, but it's also, um, it's provides energy, but it's a kind of a chilled energy. Um, different people are using it for different things. Uh, it's used for anxiety, it's used for depression. It's used, uh, uh, for focus and, and uh, productivity enhancement. Um, a lot of that's dependent on the dosage. Um, in general, a half a shot is what most people are using to get the productivity enhancement focus. And a full shot is more the euphoric alcohol replacement, which is what I originally made it for
Speaker 0 00:09:07 <laugh>. I think that's why I relate to, it's been 25 years I've been finding replacements that are safe and non-addictive that give you a little social lubricant and chill you out. So I met you, I think through Josh. Yeah, Josh Trent. Yeah. And he said, man, you gotta meet this guy. He's got an incredible story, entrepreneur, older guy, been through a lot, tons of business experience and he kind of gave it all up and just put all his eggs in this basket and it's this feel free drink. And, um, and he said that he had found it from Paul Czech.
Speaker 2 00:09:35 Right.
Speaker 0 00:09:36 Which I thought was interesting. Cause Paul's a discerning guy. He's been around the block and knows his stuff, especially in the realms of plant medicines and things like that. Uh, how did you meet Paul and how did he get excited about this thing
Speaker 2 00:09:47 Again? So I met Paul through Danny Way, the pro skater.
Speaker 0 00:09:50 Oh,
Speaker 2 00:09:50 Okay. And, um, you know, Danny is a real proponent of these types of plant medicines. Uh, you know, having had, you know, 50 surgeries or whatever it is, um, and having, uh, experienced, you know, a rabbit hole of synthetic opioids, you know, his thing was he said, you know, I've gotta figure out another way cuz I've got, I'm gonna have these surgeries the rest of my life because of how broken up I am. And if I don't find something that I can use and replace of the synthetic opioids, I'm gonna kill myself. And so I was introduced to him through a mutual friend. And, um, you know, once he tried it, he is like, oh my gosh. Cuz he'd never tried it mixed together. Um, and, uh, he said, you need to come down and, and meet, uh, Paul. And I'd never, I'd never heard of Paul before, but, uh, I went down and, uh, he tried it.
Speaker 2 00:10:51 And, um, I'll never forget his, you know, when I asked him, I said, well, what do you think? And he goes, well, it's a heart opener. And my first response to that was, well, that's kind of a hippie-dippy <laugh> term. You know, what, what, what, what in the hell does that mean, you know, that it is. Yeah. But what I've discovered, uh, since then is he was dead on. He probably has one of the better descriptions of anybody that I've talked to, and that's cemented by the fact that, you know, I'm getting all this feedback from different people across the country that, you know, reporting, you know, what it's doing for them. Um, incredible stories about, you know, reconnecting family and just, you know, um, and it truly is. I think it's, um, to me it's, it's about turning off some of the noise in your head. Me, you know, all these thoughts and quieting that down
Speaker 0 00:11:53 Channel self
Speaker 2 00:11:55 <laugh>. And that allows you then to open your heart and look around you and engage with people and truly say, you know, what's going on with you? You know, what's it, it's just, um, which for me was extremely valuable because of, you know, my past and the way that, you know, I had been the total 180 of that for most of my life.
Speaker 0 00:12:21 Yeah. I can't, I can't wait to get into that. Uh, I wanna share anecdotally, and I don't know if I've shared this with you in our prior dinners and stuff like that, um, but when Josh gave me a couple bottles of this, feel free, I mean, I've as we'll talk about, I've done a lot of mind altering substances, um, both from the plant world and synthetic in my time. And, um, so I'm pretty mindful about the stuff I take. I, you know, I don't use alcohol, coke, crystal meth. There's a, there's a huge off limits. Even cannabis, there's a huge off limits list for me. And I've found ways to be comfortable in my skin and, and quiet my mind. Meditation and all kinds of things I've been doing. Um, but I'm, you know, pretty cautious about things I take, especially if they have the, uh, um, capacity to get you fucked up, you know?
Speaker 0 00:13:06 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I had been using, uh, CRAO safely and effectively for, uh, probably four years or something prior to that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I didn't really think anything of it. I was like, oh, crate 'em kava. I already used those. So <laugh>, we were going for a hike, me and, uh, Allison. And, um, I just, you know, went in the trunk. It was like, oh yeah, there's that drink. And I just pounded the whole thing. And it was, it was probably a four mile hike, which is longer than I normally hike. Yeah. I kind of just, you know, get outta the car, go a swimming hole down the road, you know, it's a long hike. And halfway through I started noticing that I was not, like, I have inhibitions around her anyway. I mean, she knows me better than anyone in the world, and if there's anyone I can truly be myself around, it would be her. Right. We have the most intimacy I have in any relationship, obviously. But halfway through the hike, I just, I started saying really funny kind of stupid shit, you know? Exactly. Yeah. I just started kind of running my mouth and then I'd say something and be like, what are you saying? You know, it was just, it wasn't like I was drunk, but it was similar to what, what you see happen, that state change that happens when somebody has two or three glasses of wine. It's a social
Speaker 2 00:14:09 Lubrication.
Speaker 0 00:14:09 Yeah. And I, and I felt great, but what was really interesting versus other times where I've taken, um, a threshold dose of prum to where I kind of feel like, oh wow, I'm kind of feeling a little bit of this. In those cases, I would be really kind of tired and lethargic and kind of just wanna lay around. Like, I've never taken Prum, felt it, and then went, yeah, I want to charge through a hike. That's right. It's definitely not that kind of medicine for me. So that was, um, that was a whole bottle and that was really interesting. And I, I felt great, but I had tons of energy. Uh, I was happy and there was that sense of euphoria and that social lubricant thing. And I thought, Hmm, this is something totally different. Yeah. You know, and then I learned
Speaker 2 00:14:48 Neither one of the ingredients by themself will give you the same
Speaker 0 00:14:51 Feeling. They don't Yeah. That's what's interesting. Cause I love kava too, but kavas even more subtle, you know? So anyway, that was, that got my attention. And then, uh, you know, I got a couple cases of it. And it's interesting because I think I have the potential to become addicted to just about anything that feels good based on my past. I,
Speaker 2 00:15:08 I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 0 00:15:10 Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the human condition, but I actually find myself forgetting about feel free, and I'll kind of go, oh yeah, I'm going to, like today, going to do an interview. And I had some in the car. Yeah. A case I just keep in the car to turn people onto it and stuff. But it's interesting that something can like, make you feel that good, but I don't feel ever like, dependent on it or a craving or like, if I run out, I'm getting freaked out about it or something like that. So it's, it's pretty wild. So I'm glad we're getting to sit down, but, uh, I wanna go back in time a little bit and I'd like to learn about when and why you first started traveling to the South Pacific and, and Asia and how did you first come across these things in the beginning? Anyway, so
Speaker 2 00:15:50 My first experience with, uh, Cabo was probably 35 years ago. And it was just on a, you know, trip with a bunch of guys to Vanuatu Pacific Islands. And, um, we went to a fairly remote area and was introduced to the village chief. And a bunch of guys got together, locals got in a hut and sit there all night, you know, drinking, kava howling at the sun when the sun come up. And, you know, it was of interesting experience, but I wouldn't say that, you know, it was life changing. Um, of course I had my drug of choice, which was alcohol. And I immediately, you know, went back to alcohol and I kind of forgot about it. Uh, then when I was in Southeast Asia, uh, for a couple years is when I came across C Prum. Um, and I had, um, you know, since I had stopped drinking, um, I had always been looking for something that would give me a feeling that, you know, alcohol did, but not all the downside.
Speaker 2 00:17:05 And, um, anything that I could get my hands on the market, you know, that came out that was a euphoric, I would try it. And pretty much anything that illegal I could find too, I would try it. And one of two things happened. It either didn't do anything <laugh> or it did too much. And really what I was looking for was something that was not limiting, something that was enhancing, but still would make me feel comfortable among skin. And, um, it just dawned on me, you know, one day, you know, why hasn't somebody tried mixing these together?
Speaker 0 00:17:47 I, I find that, that nobody did think of that <laugh>. You know what
Speaker 2 00:17:51 I mean? Yeah. It's just, you know, and what, you know, I'd, I do a lot of research. Yeah. And it was fascinating to me that, you know, you had these two different plants in different parts of the world that were used sim you know, in similar function that, you know, um, thousands of years ago, you know, started being used yet, you know, there really was no cross pollination.
Speaker 0 00:18:17 And that's, that's really odd.
Speaker 2 00:18:19 And it's beyond that. I mean, you have Kana in South Africa, you have COA in Central and South America. So you have these substances that, you know, that were siloed that, uh, you know, native populations used. And, um, you know, the outliers of alcohol, which was in Europe and China, and um, which is the only one that's highly processed in native, use a whole, whole nother story. But, uh, I just found that fascinating and I, I said, you know, why not try mixing 'em together? And that started a whole, uh, interesting, uh, period in my life of, I set up a lab in my house and my wife thought I'd lost my mind. And <laugh> just trying different combinations, different percentages, different strains. And till I found, you know, the two that worked together. Cuz most of 'em, when you mix 'em together, you don't get the desired results.
Speaker 0 00:19:16 How many strains do you think there are of each? I mean, to, to your knowledge?
Speaker 2 00:19:20 That's a really good question because, um, you know, it's to, in my mind, it's not so much about strains as it is about, you know, just different areas where it's grown. Um, I mean there's different, uh, there are different strains, but some of that's BS
Speaker 0 00:19:41 <laugh>. Yeah. In the, in the CRA market, I mean, it's highly saturated as I'm sure you're aware, but there's a lot of emphasis on the different strains, the red vein, white vein, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I, I've never noticed that much of a difference. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:56 The reality is, is that,
Speaker 0 00:19:57 But I, I haven't done extensive research to,
Speaker 2 00:19:59 The reality is, is that, I mean, we're actually growing some in South Florida, and a single tree will have all three really. They'll have leaves that are red, they'll have leaves that are, you know, they have veins of white. It's more so about the way that it's processed. If it's, uh, exposed to sunlight, uh, it starts oxidizing and that's what turns it red. But it also changes the chemical structure of it. So, um, that really was more of a marketing thing cuz you know, you're told to take white in the morning and green in the afternoon and red at night <laugh>. And there's really not a lot of difference between
Speaker 0 00:20:42 Them. Interesting. But you found when you were doing your home lab formulations mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that that different strains of prum would, with the entourage effect of the kava change the
Speaker 2 00:20:53 Effect of it. Yeah. And most of that was, you know, where it was sourced at, whether it was amnesia or Thailand or where, you know, wherever it came from,
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Speaker 0 00:23:14 The thing I find interesting about Crao is
Speaker 2 00:23:16 That
Speaker 0 00:23:18 <laugh>, it's literally just a ground up leaf, right? I mean, you know, unless you're making an extract of it or something like that.
Speaker 2 00:23:24 Yeah. I mean, talk about, it's a tree. It's in the coffee family and you're, you know, basically consuming. And in its native form, they make a tea out of it. So they take the leaves and they strain a tea out of it. That's the way it's consumed. It's so very, very similar to the tea leaves.
Speaker 0 00:23:42 Right. And then with kava, it's a root.
Speaker 2 00:23:45 It's
Speaker 0 00:23:46 A root. And there's a bit more processing that goes into that.
Speaker 2 00:23:49 Um, it depends on, you know, of who's doing it. Um, I mean, the na the, the true native, uh, way of doing it is for people to chew it and then spit it out and the enzymes break it down, and then you drink that
Speaker 0 00:24:09 <laugh>. Yeah. That's a tough sell.
Speaker 2 00:24:10 <laugh> not, not many people really understand that. But that's really, and that's not what anybody's getting here in the us but Right. When I did it years ago, that's the way that it was done. Really. Yeah. They had, uh, of all things that had the kids chewing, you know, the, the roots during the day and spitting it into, you know, containers. And that's what we were consuming at night.
Speaker 0 00:24:35 Holy shit. Did you know that at the time? You're consuming it? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:24:38 Wow.
Speaker 0 00:24:39 Yeah. Pretty cavalier.
Speaker 2 00:24:40 Yeah. And I was, I've tried everything so <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:24:44 That's really interesting. Yeah. With the, with Theum, you know, some people are concerned about the addictive potential of it. And as I said, I've never, I've never personally experienced that. But when I first discovered Prum, I think I got some of the, uh, raw leaf powder, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I've found, wow, it's really good for killing pain. You know, I've had back pain here and there, and maybe on a flight right, I'll take prum. And I didn't really find it to be, um, overwhelming in, in its ability to get you intoxicated. I don't think, I don't know, you'd have to take so many capsules to get high. It would, it just, it was just too much. But then I discovered this, uh, extract, Hmm, this 50 x different storage, 50 x extract. And I was like, well, I'm gonna try that. And, uh, on a few occasions, and I learned my lesson.
Speaker 0 00:25:28 I really, I have a bunch of it at home. I don't even touch it anymore. I guess maybe, maybe if I was in a lot of pain, if I hurt my back or something like that. Or even on, I keep a little bit in my flight bag just in case I'm in a lot of pain. But I kind of forget about it. But I, again, I didn't find myself using it habitually or abusing or anything. I don't really like the feeling of it. It makes me a little moody. I get these, like when I was a street opiate addict, I would have these waves of kind of depression and just moody weird feelings. So the euphoria was like a moving target. I could kind of never really get the, the feeling to stick. And that was the same with the extract. But I did have a friend who I, who was sober, and I warned him, I said, Hey man, you know, be really careful with this stuff if you're gonna try it.
Speaker 0 00:26:11 Cuz he was asking me about it. And he'd come over to my house every once in a while. Cause I had a big jug of it. I just ordered bulk. And, um, he'd take a little bag home and then I noticed he started calling me more frequently, or he texts me, he is like, Hey man, can I come over and get some of that extract? And I was like, are you all right? He's like, no, I'm good. I'm good. I said, okay, be careful. And lo and behold, after some time he texted me, and he will remain unnamed, but he'll know who he is if he ever hears this. But he texted me and he is like, man, I got dope sick. You know, he had withdrawals from it. He said it was like two or three nights of the shaky legs and all that. I'm like, ugh. I know that feeling. That is one of the worst feelings, uh, known to man. So that gave me a bit of pause. Uh, but I've never noticed that from, from the leaf.
Speaker 2 00:26:53 That's what you're describing is from hydroxy seven, mitro nine, which is one of the, one of 50 some alkaloids that are in cra. And when they do the extracts, that's one of 'em that they're extracting and concentrating. So that's, that's why it's, it's so much more addictive and it's so much more harmful for you, um, to people that don't understand. I, I like to describe it the easiest way I know it is. It's, it's the exact same thing, the difference between coca leaves and cocaine. So when they make cocaine, they take the coca leaves, they use solvents, and they extract two out of 51, I think, alkaloids. And, you know, you have people in Central South America that have been chewing coca leaves their entire life into their eighties, no issues. But most people that start with cocaine, it doesn't end well.
Speaker 0 00:27:50 <laugh>, that would be the case for
Speaker 2 00:27:52 Me. And I, you know, including myself, um, what I look at it is, is to kind of a easy way to, is just don't mess with mother nature. Mother nature created these blends for a reason. And when you start, you know, changing that, that's when you get into issues. Yeah. Very much so. That's why I was very adamant about using full plant material versus using synthetics extracts, which, um, is not very easy to do when you're trying to get it into a shot like that.
Speaker 0 00:28:28 I bet, I bet. Yeah. I love that analogy of the, the cocoli versus cocaine. And to take it a step further crack. Right. Even like Yeah. You know, even the worst of the worst, oh
Speaker 2 00:28:39 God, that's the exact same thing with, with either Crate or Mac, Cabo. They use either solvents or CO2 and extract certain cabos or or al out to create the extracts.
Speaker 0 00:28:51 Yeah, it's definitely interesting, um, with the, the coca leaf, because I haven't used cocaine in, uh, almost 25 years, but, uh, I do use coca leaf, you know, as a dip mabe they call it. And you mix it with some baking soda, but it's just a ground up leaf. And I remember the first time I tried that, and it's very subtle. I mean, I, there's no way does it get you high. It's just like, almost like a cup of green tea or something. But it's just, it's a mood elevating. It's very nice. I really like it. But I remember the first couple times I've tried it, I thought, man, they really screwed this up. <laugh>. You know, it's like, it's so nice. It's so subtle. It's not gonna help you escape from your problems or sit and chat and try to solve the world's problems like a Coke. I will. But I just thought, God, they ruined it. You know, cocaine is, it's just so nasty compared to the, you know, the very subtle, smooth effect of the leaf.
Speaker 2 00:29:40 Well, two things. One is the fact that they're, you know, messing with the balance of the alkaloids. The second is, is that there's residue left in there of whatever they, you know, processed it with, which in Cocaine's case in most cases is gasoline,
Speaker 0 00:29:55 <laugh>. I've seen those videos on YouTube. There's like these kids in a village, you know, putting the leaves in a big VAD of gasoline. I was like, oh my God, I used to put that shit in my body. It's disgusting.
30 Minute Mark
Speaker 2 00:30:05 No wonder you feel bad the next day.
Speaker 0 00:30:06 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:30:07 Exactly. Or two days later or whatever.
Speaker 0 00:30:09 Yeah. <laugh> or even five minutes later in some cases. I remember when I first moved to LA in 1989, I, I had grown up in northern California, and, uh, for whatever reason, when I first started experimenting with cocaine, it was, it was much more pure. You know, it just, I think it actually had cocaine in it. I remember moving to LA and people, Hey, let's get some coke, and we do coke. And I go, I don't even think there was Coke in that <laugh>. You know, it's just, who knows what was in there. It's just super sketchy.
Speaker 2 00:30:34 You don't wanna know.
Speaker 0 00:30:35 Yeah. Uh, so I, I want to cover a bit more of this, but your backstory's really understanding, and you and I share something, and that was a, a destructive, uh, love or dependency for alcohol mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So take me back into earlier life. When did, uh, you know, when did drinking kind of become a problem for you and and how did that ultimately end up in you needing to give it up entirely?
Speaker 2 00:30:57 So, you know, I started out, uh, in the oil and gas business. Uh, started out, you know, from the very bottom, uh, had some incredible success way beyond what had ever dream success was. Um, you know, huge company, hundreds and hundreds of employees, uh, you know, the big houses, the planes, the cars, the boats, all that kind of stuff. And, um, but my mentors that I looked up to, you know, the standard life was work hard. You know, party harder, play harder. And the main component of that was alcohol. And, you know, for the longest time, alcohol really worked for me. And then it started, you know, um, escalating to the point that there started, you know, the wheels started to come off. And this accumulated at, you know, at a point where, you know, I'm sitting in the house, we're having a party, there's three or 400 people there. Um, and I'm sitting in the master bedroom by myself, and I'm like, I'm just totally miserable. Um, you know, and then things continue to deteriorate even more. And that led to an intervention and me going off to treatment and, um, at treatment, um, I learned a lot about myself and, um, you know, I'm one of these people that, you know, one time in treatment was a light bulb moment for me, and it really changed my life.
Speaker 0 00:32:41 Me too.
Speaker 2 00:32:42 Thanks for, and I haven't had a drink since then. That was in, um, 2000 and, uh, eight.
Speaker 0 00:32:50 I've often wondered what it is that makes sobriety stick for some people on the first time. And that's how it was for me too.
Speaker 2 00:32:59 I think that, um, part of it was I was just really miserable <laugh>, you know, I just, I, from outward appearance, I had, you know, all the measures of success, but inside I was just, you know, I was bankrupt.
Speaker 0 00:33:16 So you, you hadn't, you know, lost the wife and the career and all of the external stuff hadn't yet crumbled.
Speaker 2 00:33:22 It was starting to fall apart. Uh, fortunately my wife, you know, stayed with me. Um, but, you know, if I had let it go on very much longer, it would've all totally exploded.
Speaker 0 00:33:38 What do you think was it in you that caused you to have that need to, to numb out and, and check out in that way?
Speaker 2 00:33:46 You know, um, what I learned, you know, why I was in treatment was that, you know, my family was extremely distant. Um, even me more so than the rest of my family. I never really had, you know, any, um, social connections with my family or personal connections. Um, never really had any personal connections with anybody, um, unless I was drinking. And drinking allowed me to feel comfortable in my own skin and actually communicate with other people.
Speaker 0 00:34:24 I've thought about, uh, trauma a lot, you know, in my journey. And because, and I've also been around a lot of people that are sober, you know, and I, of course, we work together, we support each other, get to know each other on a pretty deep level, you know, in treatment. And afterward if you, um, you know, elect to join support groups and things like that. And, um, one thing I've found to be quite a common thread is, is trauma in childhood. But what's been interesting to me about it is that in some cases it's acute, it's physical abuse, sexual abuse. Uh, and so there's something very obvious, a punctuation mark in one's life, right. That really injured them, right? Where there's, oh, then this, that thing happened, you know, that dark shadowy thing that, you know, screwed you up and that eventually you're masking it and trying to numb it out with drugs and alcohol. But there are other people where it seems like their trauma was more around something that didn't happen. There was something, yeah. There was something missing, you know, that, that should have been there. And in your case, it sounds like perhaps that sense of connection and support. So there's almost, uh, an emotional neglect.
Speaker 2 00:35:29 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:35:29 That is, you know, I guess relatively speaking as harmful or that can end up with the same consequences later in life as someone went through some really
Speaker 2 00:35:38 Hard shit. Again, from outward to appearance. I think my childhood was, you know, look great. Um, you know, and, and I take responsibility out. There's just something about me that, you know, I just couldn't connect. I just didn't feel any desire to and didn't know how to, and it was just very distant.
Speaker 0 00:36:05 When you were really little, do you remember your parents holding you, hugging you, telling, telling you how much they love you and, and whatnot? No.
Speaker 2 00:36:14 That we didn't have that kind of family <laugh>, and it's not, when I say that, it's not like it's a abusive or anything that Sure. It just, we just weren't, um, we weren't a loving family like that. It was, it was just a different dynamic.
Speaker 0 00:36:30 Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that interesting though? You know? Yeah. How, I mean, I think in, in my childhood, there was a lot of love in me. Both my parents were affectionate, told me they loved me. Uh, there was a lot of support and, and connection. And, uh, I, I, I think that I have a relatively easy time connecting with other people and, and bonding. But there was also, um, you know, different types of abuse and neglect and abandonment and things that went on there too. And, and, you know, abuse, not so much at the hands of my parents directly, but just in the periphery. And so <laugh>, you know, it's like you have two people that went to drinking and developed an alcoholic problem and had totally different experiences, but it's, it's almost as if inside subjectively, you know, we feel the same kind of pain. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:37:15 And what's interesting to me about it is you can take two kids from the same family, either that outwardly abused or else just maybe neglected and not really, um, you know, having that sense of affection and being cared for. But there's a certain gene or some molecular makeup in, in people like me that makes alcohol fix everything. Everything's better. Oh yeah. You know, like I have a, I have two brothers and one of 'em is, is like me and one of 'em is not like he had the same mom and dad with their half-brothers, but they shared a pretty similar experience. One of 'em, he drinks half a beer and he's just like, ah, God, I'm getting tired. And me and my other brother, you know, it solved everything. The first time I had a drink, it was just like, the clouds parted and the Lord <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:37:59 Oh yeah. So this, it just, Hey, I can remember my first drink.
Speaker 0 00:38:03 Well, was it, what did it feel like? Did, was it a sense of, you know, relief? It was
Speaker 2 00:38:06 Just bliss. I mean, I felt it, you know, coming on. And most people say when they first have a drink, they don't like the taste. They don't, you know, I loved it from day one. I, it just is like, this is what I've been missing.
Speaker 0 00:38:23 Yeah. I relate to that. I've always wondered, you know, what it is and maybe someday there'll be a test for it. Right? Yeah. A certain, a certain something in your genetics that makes you more prone to, not only addiction, but it's just fascinating to me that one person gets a tremendous amount of relief from drugs and alcohol. And the another person with a similar kind of story and similar trauma or neglect or whatever it is, it does nothing that they don't get that sense of relief. It's just fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 00:38:49 Uh, it has to do something with body chemistry, I think. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and people react differently.
Speaker 0 00:38:57 As someone who spends so much time, energy, and money to be healthy, I wanna keep track of what's working and what's not. That's why I'm really into this company I found called Inside Tracker. They are an ultra personalized performance system that analyzes data from your blood dna n a lifestyle and fitness tracker to help you optimize your body and reach your health and wellness goals. Through their app and testing protocol, I'm able to get a clear picture of what my body looks like on the inside. And I also get a clear measure of whether my diet, supplement and exercise choices are helping or even hurting. I did the whole Inside Tracker deal recently and was actually shocked to find that I was less than perfect in some areas. My cholesterol and B vitamins were high, for example, and a few other things that needed a little tweaking.
Speaker 0 00:39:43 There was of course also some good news as my overall health score was that of a much younger person and certainly more optimized than your average American. And that's the point. The whole goal with Inside Tracker is to be optimized, not normal. So they don't merely show you the normal biomarker zones. They show you the optimal biomarker zones and numbers that are best for your individual body. So if you want to check this out, I highly recommend you sign up for Inside Tracker. Now you're going to get your testing done, the results of your biomarkers, and then some incredible lifestyle and diet recommendations from their brainiac scientist to help you improve everything you find. Just go to inside tracker.com/luke where you will save 25% off your entire order. That's inside tracker.com/luke. So you're a big wig in the oil and gas industry. You got all the toys, all the things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what would you, and you didn't really have to, you know, lose at all in order to come to your senses and go to rehab. What would you say to someone who is struggling with financial abundance and has the belief that when they just make it, they're going to be happy and fulfilled?
Speaker 2 00:40:57 Well, I, I don't know what for them, but for myself, what I've found out was that it's really not about the money. I mean, money's important. Um, I wouldn't tell anybody that it's not, but I needed something that, you know, I could say that it was a purpose why I'm doing this other than just doing it for myself. Because, you know, for the longest time in that I didn't really have personal feelings for anyone. I just looked at everything as resources. So, you know, when I engaged with you, it was really about, you know, what can I use you for to get to what I want to get to? It wasn't anything about, I don't care about you, any of that. Cuz I just didn't even think about that. And, um, you know, that's a, that's a very cancerous place to be over time
Speaker 0 00:42:00 When
Speaker 2 00:42:00 You, I think it becomes really lonely.
Speaker 0 00:42:02 Yeah. When you hit bottom. Um, it sounds like you had an interesting experience in that it was more of an internal realization that it was everything around you fallen apart. I find that interesting cuz many people, you know, have to be put in abject failure.
Speaker 2 00:42:18 Well, I, I say that it was, it was internal and external. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, I did have pretty much everyone around me, you know, saying, you gotta do something. You're, you're killing yourself. You're gonna kill yourself and or somebody else at the rate you're going.
Speaker 0 00:42:34 And when you got out of, uh, treatment, what tools did you use or what, what did you do to work on that underlying, you know, lack
Speaker 2 00:42:43 Of fulfillment? That's what was interesting was, you know, I went to, um, Atlanta to a 90 day inpatient, uh, treatment. And, um, this particular place specializes with doctors and airplane pilots. And I lived with three doctors in a condo there on the grounds. And the treatment itself, the sessions and all that were fine. But really where I got my benefit was for the first time ever is living with, you know, three other men and having real discussions about, you know, what's going on in life, you know, what the problems are. Cuz I'd never really talked to anybody about that before. And, you know, these are professionals and a couple of them, you know, very, very successful. Um, you know, realizing that they were struggling with the same thing that I was. Uh, because my problem was, I was a functioning alcoholic, um, in that, um, and I kept thinking I could tweak this or move that or whatever, and I'll, I'll get control of it because I controlled everything else in my life.
Speaker 2 00:44:01 And, you know, if I work hard enough, I'll figure this out too and I can have my cake and eat it too. And what I realized was that I'm not the only one that's, you know, has this insanity, which is what it is. You know, continuing to do the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity. And you know, for me, like I said, the, the scheduled, you know, uh, sessions and all that stuff were, I think kind of set the stage. But my light bulb moment was, I think it was like a Sunday evening. We're watching TV and the movie comes on a beautiful mine, uh, about John Nash. Um, and at the end of that movie they're walking along and, um, his with his arch nemesis and he is like, cuz you know, he's psychotic. And he goes, do you still see them?
Speaker 2 00:44:58 And he looks over and they're walking along beside, you know, he's the only one that can see 'em, but he sees them. He said, yeah, I still see 'em. He said, but I've learned not to engage with them. And up until that moment my entire life, anything I thought I thought was real or true, any thought I had. Oh, yeah. And what, and what I realized was I've got the same thing that he has. He has a more severe version of it because he's actually seeing, but I'm acting on these things that are in these voices in my head, and most of them aren't real or they're not true. But I've been actioning in them my entire life. And it was just one of those moments where I just said, you know, I've gotta figure out how to not engage with him like he has
Speaker 0 00:45:54 In terms of negative thought patterns and, and things like that that are
Speaker 2 00:45:58 Yeah. Or just this thing about, you know, you can, you can do this.
Speaker 0 00:46:02 Oh, okay. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:46:03 And the reality is, you know, genetics or whatever it is, I can't do that. Yeah. I just can't do it. And, you know, I think I would've, without that, I would've just continued to try until I killed myself mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I was on a fast trajectory down.
Speaker 0 00:46:22 Well, I can only imagine when someone has the resources and also has a habit or two, you know, <laugh>. Yeah. I think I was fortunate in that I was always broke. Right. So it was just, you know, getting through that one day and then trying to come up with the money to get well the next day.
Speaker 2 00:46:36 You see that with, you know, high profile people, whether be athletes or celebrities or whatever. They're a lot more prone to, you know, kill themselves. Yeah. Because they have all the support around them. They have unlimited resources and,
Speaker 0 00:46:51 And a bunch of Yes. People around 'em too. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Parasites that are just kind of feeding off their resources or fame and things like that. Oh, you're good, you're good. You
Speaker 2 00:46:59 Know, kill, kill the golden goose. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:47:01 Exactly. But I think that's interesting when you talk about the mind and, and believing your thoughts. You know, when I was, um, probably about five or six years sober, I was still having a lot of emotional and mental problems and was just, I was better. But still, some of the underlying issues were just, you know, rampant to say the least. And, um, I started really delving into the literature of recovery, the, the books of Alcoholics synonymous, et cetera. And I just, you know, I knew that I had gotten sober, but I was still not, and I, you know, there were elements of my personality, um, that were still very defective. And I just, and I just couldn't change some of the stuff about myself. And there was one thing it said in, in what they call the big book and it says, um, alcoholism is centered in the mind. And someone pointed that out to me. I thought, oh, so it's not really about whether I drink alcohol. It's that the way Yeah. The way I think is so warped. And it also says, uh, that, you know, drinking, uh, an alcoholic has a warped mind. Yeah. And that the, so I started really focusing on my thoughts and as you described, seeing how all of my life, it's like the mind would just produce an idea and I'd go, yeah, sounds good. <laugh> just run with it. Yeah. No matter how stupid or ill-informed
Speaker 2 00:48:12 It was, that sounds extremely elementary, but nobody had ever told me that. And you know, so I was just operating off of what I thought was how everybody operated. And um, you know, that's what it led to.
Speaker 0 00:48:32 Yeah. That process of self-inquiry is everything. I remember even before I got sober, uh, my dad took me to a lecture by this woman named Byron Katie, a spiritual teacher who has incidentally been on the show since. But, uh, her whole model is built around, um, self-inquiry, you know, asking yourself questions. And she has a series of four questions. The first of which Bean is it True? So say, uh, you know, just give a simple example. Say I'm out somewhere and I run into someone I know and they seem like they kind of brush me off. I say hi, and I give a, a warm welcome. And they're like, ah, yeah. And they just keep going. And then I get in my car and I'm like, oh, they think they're better than me. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever the, whatever the thought is. And and her whole thing is
Speaker 2 00:49:12 Totally different.
Speaker 0 00:49:13 Yeah. And her whole thing is, is it true? Can you really know that it's true? Yeah. Who would you be without the thought that that's true? And, and just that kind of practice of self-inquiry rather than just going with the first thing that my mind spits out, which is often charged with emotion. Right. That makes it even more believable is just go, can I really know that? And I think that's been one of the biggest gifts of my entire life has just been the, you know, the willingness to question what I think is true. Well,
Speaker 2 00:49:43 The other aspect of it is, and you know, when you asked what, you know, what I did and what tools, as I've really started doing the same thing you did, started researching and, and I started, uh, uh, really studying neuroscience. And you know, what I didn't realize is that we actually have two brains. The new brain in the old brain, uh, and the old brain is fight or flight and it's, it's extremely fast, but it's not, it doesn't take into account really all the knowledge that you're holding. The new brain is, holds a lot of knowledge, but it's an extremely slow processor. And I had always prided myself on making fast decisions, <laugh>, <laugh>, <laugh>, and yeah. So I was making fight or flight decisions on pretty much everything, which is not good. And, um, once I understood that, you know, I changed, you know, how I processed things and you know, the greatest example of that is, and I read this in a book and I tried it, you know, when somebody sends you an email that's charged and you've fired an email back, take that email and s and save it and come back the next day and look what you wrote.
Speaker 2 00:51:04 It's exactly what you talked about earlier, that you'll look at it and go, I responded totally wrong to what they were telling me, but I was re I was res responding fight or flight obra and I was escalating it and I probably didn't even <laugh>, I was totally off base with what they were trying to communicate to me and then rewrite the email totally different and send it. And it's amazing the different results you get versus that's huge. Something blowing up, you know, it, you know,
Speaker 0 00:51:44 That alone would be enough value for someone to listen to this podcast. Honestly, it took me years with that thing, specifically with emails.
Speaker 2 00:51:53 But again, I, I just, um, nobody had told me that, I don't know why they don't teach that type of stuff in school. Because I think that's the root of a lot of problems that people are having is they're running around their entire life without ever really engaging the better part of their brain. I mean, fight or flights necessary, probably not so much today as it was, you know, years and years, you know, millions of years ago with man. But it's, you know, you can't survive. I don't, you can't thrive I don't think, in this environment without having issues by just making those types of decisions. And, and I think a lot of people are doing that and it's not their fault. No one's ever explained it to them. Cuz I, I talked to people about it now and most people like never heard of that before.
Speaker 0 00:52:54 Yeah, I, I agree. Uh, emotional intelligence courses starting in preschool, <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:53:00 I mean, some of the stuff they teach, you know, is to me is meaningless. I don't know why they don't put more effort into some of the things that actually wind up being some of the more important things in
Speaker 0 00:53:09 Life. I have theories about that, which we'll say for another podcast. I think if, uh, if schools were designed to create emotionally stable and healthy, independent sovereign people, you know, there's
Speaker 2 00:53:23 A reason Hard to, hard to control.
Speaker 0 00:53:25 Yeah, exactly. You know where I'm going with that. Yeah. Um, were there any other, actually, you know, what I wanna ask you is the disease, if you want to call it that, some call it that some don't. Uh, I think of dis disease as a sense of dis-ease, right? So the dis dis-ease of alcoholism and addiction mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's definitely a lack of ease. So it fits from that context. Um, and, and as I discovered, and you did, uh, it sounds too, is that it, so much of it really is based in the way that you think, right? The thoughts that you, that you have. And then it becomes a physical problem depending on what chemicals you're using. Cuz you could become a physically addicted, uh, as I was, and then you come out of it. And I was kind of disappointed to find that the most, the most successful, uh, route known, you know, historically is for people to find a spiritual connection. Right. And that ultimately underneath all of that dise is this, uh, lack of, of connection to a higher power. You know, so
Speaker 2 00:54:26 You have to have something that's more powerful than you
Speaker 0 00:54:28 Are. Yeah. So most recovery programs and things are kind of based around like, hey, you know, if you're an atheist, you're gonna have a hard time <laugh> you, I have to come to believe in some kind of higher power. What's your journey been like in terms of your, your spirituality and, and finding a connection to something greater? You
Speaker 2 00:54:44 Know, um, I think for me it was more of what I just described earlier. It was more, um, um, research and educational and really understanding, you know, why I had been doing what I was doing and, and ways to get around that, whether that be meditation or whatever, you know, what I can say is that, you know, they say, you know, what do you have when you take alcohol away from an asshole? You still have an asshole. And even though I had, you know, made this step in the right direction, I still didn't, uh, feel comfortable my own skin. I didn't, uh, you know, I just didn't feel right. And, uh, that's really start what started the journey in, um, in this is that, you know, I, so I started looking for other things that I felt were, were healthier, that could, you know, get me the feeling that I had with alcohol, but, uh, not have the downside. So anything that, you know, was out there in the market, legal, illegal, whatever, I would try it. And there were two camps that either didn't do anything or it did too much. And, you know, I wanted something that I could still work, could work out all of that, but, but feel good doing it and not have to be just taking it all the time. And what I found was that there was, for me, there was nothing out there that could do that. So I got the idea of creating it myself.
Speaker 0 00:56:28 When you set up this lab in your, uh, nice segue too, cause I did <laugh>, there were other questions I had around, around this formula and plant medicines in general. When you set up this lab in your house and started toying with these things, was, was there any concern from your wife that like, oh yeah. Oh, he's gonna go off the deep end again. Definitely.
Speaker 2 00:56:47 So
Speaker 0 00:56:48 How did you assuage her concerns?
Speaker 2 00:56:50 You know, um, I think she underlyingly. I mean, I wasn't really a, still wasn't a pleasant person to be around <laugh> because I was still really distant. Um, I think she, you know, wanted me to find something to kind of round me out. Um, but she had real concern that I was gonna slip back off a rabbit hole again. And, you know, she voiced that continuously, um, especially with the fact that in doing these combinations, some of 'em give you some pretty, you know, uh, undesired results.
Speaker 0 00:57:31 <laugh> lay down on the couch, nauseous kind
Speaker 2 00:57:33 Of thing. <laugh>, yeah. None that, or just knocked out or just too jittery and jumping around or whatever. And, and so she was seeing all this and she's going, you know, you're, you're crazy. You're going crazy. Again, <laugh>, and I heard this over and over and over again, but I kept, you know, I kept thinking that like most things in my life that I can figure out a way to, to fix this, to do it. And in this ty in this case, I'm glad that I did because I did finally find something that, um, gave me the social connection I was after, gave me actually, you know, the energy, the focus to enhance, whether that be a workout or work or whatever. And, um, you know, at that point in time, I had no thoughts of taking a commercial. Uh, but I started sharing it with friends and they're like, oh my gosh, this stuff's incredible and you should, you know, you should sell it.
Speaker 0 00:58:32 Oh, really? So you were just making your own formula in the beginning? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:58:36 Oh, that's funny. I had no thoughts of taking a
Speaker 0 00:58:39 Commercial. What were you doing for work at the time when you started the experimentation?
Speaker 2 00:58:43 When, the reason I went to Southeast Asia is I launched a, uh, FinTech company, financial technology for the underbanked. And, um, so I was still kind of wrapping that, wrapping that up.
Speaker 0 00:58:57 And then at what point did you, you know, start giving it to your friends and go, you know what? I'm gonna do something with this. And, and how'd you come up with the name? Feel free. And the whole, the whole thing had come
Speaker 2 00:59:08 Together. So again, you know, I started sharing it with friends and then they would tell friends and more and more people were, you know, wanting it. And more and more people were saying, you need to do something with this. So I started really kind of formulating, you know, um, you know, what the packaging would look like, what the, and the name was a whole, that was a long process of, cuz I started putting a team together that, you know, had experience in consumer package goods and pretty much everything I was thinking, they were telling me, that's crazy. You can't do it. You know, it makes no sense. And some of it, I listened to 'em <laugh>, most of it, I just went ahead because it felt right. Uh, the name to me was because it does so many different things, it's the closest thing that covers it. Cuz you can feel free of pain, you can feel free of stress, you know, all these different things. Uh, whereas anything else I thought of was more limiting. Um, I mean, one of the biggest things is, is I, I put my personal number
1 Hour Mark
Speaker 0 01:00:14 <laugh> I know
Speaker 2 01:00:15 On the boxes and everything else. And
Speaker 0 01:00:17 Does it still on there? Yeah. Wow. Damn. I, that's like a nightmare to me is giving up my cell phone
Speaker 2 01:00:23 Number, you know? And that says a lot. All the people that were experts in the field said, you can't do that. You know, it's, that's gonna be a, you're gonna regret that. That's actually been the most valuable thing of the whole thing because I get calls from people from all over the country telling me, you know, what it's done for them or their family. And it's just, it's real because I'm not soliciting this <laugh>. They're just calling me up saying, you know, I just want you to know this. I mean, an example would be, there was a family here in uh, Austin that actually the, um, she went, she purchased it and she said, you know, I got it. She said, it's okay, you know, she didn't rock my world. She said, it's okay. But she said, the reason I'm calling you is she said, I gave son to my husband.
Speaker 2 01:01:17 I didn't tell him what it was, just told him it was a wellness shot. And she said, about 45 minutes later, she said, my two little girls coming in this said, what's wrong with daddy? And she says, what are you talking about? She says, well, he is in here, she's got his, put his phone up, he's playing with this, he's giggling. And she said, you know, I've continued to give it to him. She said, you know, you brought my husband back. Wow. I said, what do you mean by that? She said, well, he was, he wasn't the same person that I married. And she said, he's back to that same person again. And she said, that's what I wanted to tell you. And I was just like, it's one of those, I don't do a good job. You know, probably. But it was just one of those really emotional, powerful moments that I'm like, that's why we do this.
Speaker 0 01:02:05 Yeah. Well, especially, you know, having lived as someone who is very selfish and self-centered as exactly as you described earlier, I mean, I, I know what that's like. You walk into a room and you're like, how can I get what I want out of this situation? Yeah. <laugh>, you know, no regard for anyone else, anyone else just serves a purpose to get me what I think is gonna be fulfilling. And, you know, to have the inverse of that, which is the way my life is now as well, is like literally walk into a room and think, what can I contribute to it? And getting similar feedback, you know, constantly on this podcast, same thing, messages from people and on days where I'm like bogged down with administrative stuff and I'm like, God, this sucks. I don't want to do this. Bing. I get a DM on Instagram to someone that says, oh, your show changed my life. And it's like, oh yeah, yeah, that's it. That's, you know, that's, and then if you make money, it's like, cool. You, that's, that's fun too. That's an added bonus. But like, if you actually enjoy what you do Yeah. And you have a purpose to
Speaker 2 01:02:59 It, very, very fortunate if you can do that. Cuz a lot of people are getting up every day and they don't, they don't get that.
Speaker 0 01:03:06 I've been there,
Speaker 0 01:03:09 I've been into energetic healing technologies for many years, especially those that are supportive for E M F exposure and there are a lot of so-called quantum products on the market, and I've tried just about anyone I've ever heard of, but few of them have had any noticeable effect. However, there is one product line that's passed my test and become part of my arsenal, and it's called Lila Quantum Tech. Lila Quantum has developed a groundbreaking technology to increase your energy level, become more stress resistant, and also helps to support your whole family, pets, and garden with pure quantum energy. The Lila Quantum products have been certified and studied by various third party institutes and doctors. And these studies have found significant improvements in people's blood, cellular voltage, allergy reduction, and heart rate variability. But my favorite benefit of all is that the Lila Quantum products help neutralize harmful frequencies, including any EMF like 4g, 5g, microwaves, and wifi.
Speaker 0 01:04:07 In fact, I have the Lila quantum block in my kitchen where I charge my food, drinks and supplements as well as the infinity block in my living room and here in the studio for a huge energetic upgrade. Lila Quantum Tech is a truly conscious business that wants to do good in the world and even plants a tree for every order. So if you wanna hook up your energetic environment and have a tree planted on your behalf, you can go to lila q.com and use the code Luke 10 to save 10% off your first order. That's L e e L A q.com and the discount code is Luke 10 for new customers. So I want to tell you too, feel free is the best name ever. And actually when Josh gave me, um, these bottles I think before the one I had before, I had a sticker on it, and then I remember seeing a photo of this one, I was like, that's good ass branding. I mean the color of the bottle, the name, like, you've done a really, really good job. So kudos to that.
Speaker 2 01:05:03 Now, those same people that, you know, told me you can't do this and shouldn't do that and whatever, they're all, you know, saying the same thing. So at least in that part of it, and, and it's the proof of it is, is that we put it out, you know, in hundreds and hundreds of stores across the country and without any marketing, nobody had ever heard of it before and it took off incredibly fast. It's, and one of the top chains, convenience store chains in the country, it's outselling Red Bull and five hour combined.
Speaker 0 01:05:36 Oh, that's so cool, dude. Do you like Trojan horse native plant medicines into mainstream culture? Yeah. That's so
Speaker 2 01:05:44 Cool. Which I think again, is the coolest part of it. I tell people that, um, crayon probably is the largest unknown product in the us There's 4,500 metric tons coming in per month just from, just from Indonesia. What if you take the average amount of user uses, that's tens of millions of people that are regularly using it. Yet if I walked down the road and asked 20 people what it was, odds are 15, 18 of 'em wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 0 01:06:20 That's so funny.
Speaker 2 01:06:21 And it's because it's been pigeonholed in this space and my thought is, is, you know, why not get it out in the open and, you know, in the east plant medicines have always been front and center, you know, then supported by synthetics in the west. It's just the opposite. And the reason for that is you can't, you can't patent plant medicines.
Speaker 0 01:06:48 Yeah. You can't patent a tree.
Speaker 2 01:06:50 So there's a commercial reason why the, we've gone the direction we have. Um, but it's, it's encouraging to me that there's a general macro, macro shift towards plant medicines. It started with cannabis and the legalization state by state. You're seeing that now with, with crao it's being, um, there's been crao regulation passed in six states now 30 more are in the process of passing it.
Speaker 0 01:07:18 Positive regulation.
Speaker 2 01:07:19 Yes. Yeah, yeah. When I say regulation, it's not regulation. You can't, you know, use it. It's regulation of here's what you need to test for, you know, heavy metals, contaminants, different kinds of things. And it outlaws high concentration, synthetics and extracts. Wow. Which I think is, you know, if you Google right, I'm gonna scare you to death.
Speaker 0 01:07:42 Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 01:07:43 But that's all based on these synthetics and extracts.
Speaker 0 01:07:49 Yeah. When, uh, when I started seeing it in, in the general world, other than online, it's always kind of, it's at the liquor store, uh, you know, at the, these kind of like weed stores and stuff. Yeah. I don't go to weed stores, but you know, those kind of liquor stores that sell boner pills and it's kind, you know, it's kinda up with that stuff, you know, and it's just kind of, it's kind of shady. So I think that was, that piqued my interest also when I saw what you were doing because I was like, oh, this is actually elevated. It's, it's totally, you know, a a different way of bringing it forward. Um, and obviously I'm assuming you're, you are testing for heavy metals and mold and this kind of stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2 01:08:26 We, we test, you know, again, because I was, I designed this for myself, you know, the first thing that I was con, you know, concerned about was the safety of it. And I'm pretty particular about what I consume, uh, especially since 2008 <laugh>. Um, and um, you know, I just wanted to make sure that it, you know, it wasn't causing me any harm. I mean, so I actually, because again, no one had mixed these two together before I experimented on myself, I did what I would consider abusive levels of it for an extended period of time. And I checked my blood chemistry versus my annual blood chemistry to see if, you know, elevated liver enzymes or anything like that. I didn't see anything. I took it one step farther. I did some of the synthetics extracts and very quickly I saw changes in blood chemistry.
Speaker 0 01:09:24 Oh really? Yeah. How, when you say you were doing a abusive levels of it, how many bottles a day were
Speaker 2 01:09:30 You doing? Six a day?
Speaker 0 01:09:31 <laugh>. My god,
Speaker 2 01:09:32 Dude. And I, I wouldn't recommend that to anybody. Oh,
Speaker 0 01:09:35 No way.
Speaker 2 01:09:36 But, uh, because I did feel a little toxic.
Speaker 0 01:09:39 How did you function? Man,
Speaker 2 01:09:41 Actually I functioned really well. Really? And you had a very, very productive
Speaker 0 01:09:45 <laugh>. That's so funny. Yeah, because like I said, the first day I got these, I drank a whole one. And then I don't know if I've had a whole one since, cuz it's maybe a couple times and I was like, ah, it's a little too much. So maybe, you know, I kind of sip it throughout the day or I keep one in my car and I'll just drink a quarter of one. But I imagine like six of those in one day, I feel like I would be laid out. That's, uh, astonishing that you were able to also keep it together and not lose it. But it's good to know you didn't get sick from it, you know? Uh, what did you find when you did the synthetics and stuff? What changes did you find in your, in your chemistry?
Speaker 2 01:10:18 Elevated liver enzymes. Oh, okay. And also, um, elevated blood sugar.
Speaker 0 01:10:22 Oh, okay. So it's just hard on your liver to process all that stuff. Yeah. Interesting. And then in terms of, um, regulation, and I've been watching Crao for a few years and it looks like there have been a couple, thankfully ill-fated attempts from the, the authorities
Speaker 2 01:10:38 To actually a successful attempt, uh, CRA's the only substance that's ever been scheduled and then unscheduled
Speaker 0 01:10:46 Really
Speaker 2 01:10:47 In 2000. And it is either 2015, 2016, the F D A, uh, submitted some science and was able to get it scheduled. Uh, so it was federally illegal. Within the next year, hundreds of thousands of people, uh, started contacting their congressmen and some congressmen that had been using it. They all started talking and, uh, congress overturned it. Wow. And it just never happened before.
Speaker 0 01:11:18 I remember hearing murmurs of that. Yeah. And I think there were some veterans groups and things that were, you know, people.
Speaker 2 01:11:24 What was, what was more fascinating was that, um, the former head of the F D A testified in Congress that the science was falsified
Speaker 0 01:11:35 Really?
Speaker 2 01:11:36 Because they, they cited all these deaths and there was parts of 'em redacted. Well, one of 'em is an example. The guy was shot five times <laugh>, yet they said he died from Crao.
Speaker 0 01:11:47 Oh my god. Scandalous dude. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that going on in the, in the world of medicine at the moment, as we know, people fallen off buildings and dying of a flu, et cetera. Yeah. Um, wow. Interesting. So do you have any, other than the, um, anecdotal self, um, lab that you did, uh, are you looking in any clinical trials or in any further studies? We are actually. We're, uh, what's happening,
Speaker 2 01:12:13 So we back to the labs or the testing, we test, test the basin. One other thing I've found is that you can't always trust the testing that comes with the, the product from overseas or the ingredients. Um, they're just not accurate sometimes for various reasons. So we test, we have our own labs, you know, certified third party labs here in the US, test all the ingredients coming in, and then we test the finished product also for any kind of contaminants or anything. So, uh, again, because I'm consuming it, I wanna make sure that it's, it's safe and, you know, that's safe for everybody else too.
Speaker 0 01:12:53 What about any, uh, experiments or trials where you test people's, I don't know, brain waves or r v performance, that
Speaker 2 01:13:01 Kinda stuff? Um, the next thing we're doing is I'm working with the University of Florida and we're, um, setting up for next year. We're gonna run clinical clinical study. Um, the clinical study will be for, um, uh, productivity enhancement and focus and also anxiety. Uh, so it's, um, I'm very excited to do that. I know what the results are gonna be based on, you know, what I've found out and what, you know, I've worked with other people informally. Um, but you know, once we have that completed, then we can, you know, we can even go more mainstream. Right. And we can make more, you know, we can make claims basically. Right,
Speaker 0 01:13:44 Right. Because now it's anecdotal and it's people calling your number on the
Speaker 2 01:13:48 Bottom <laugh> ex. Exactly.
Speaker 0 01:13:49 Oh, speaking of that, uh, I forgot to mention earlier people listening. You can get the show notes for this episode@lukestory.com slash feel free. So if there was anything mentioned that you want to be able to click on and research, uh, on a deeper level, again, that's luke story.com/feel free. And while I'm at it, uh, thank you for offering a discount code to us today. Yeah. Uh, for those of you that want to check out, feel free, you can go to botanic tonics.com and use the code Luke 40. And I'll put that in the show notes as well. Thank you for that. I love when people come on and it's like, if they're gonna, I mean, it's just a given if they're gonna talk about a product, which is not necessarily the point of it, because I want to get to know that person mm-hmm. <affirmative> and kind of the why behind what they're doing, even if I love their product. But it's always nice to give people a discount. So thank you for doing that. Yeah. Um, hopefully you're, you'll sell a bunch of it and everyone will win and it's all great. But I just wanted to talk to you about this cause I think your story's fascinating. And, um, you know, I don't, do you mind saying, uh, how many years of age you are at this
Speaker 2 01:14:45 Point? I am, uh, 59. I 59 60 in March.
Speaker 0 01:14:47 Okay. So you've got a few years on me. Yeah. And you've had success in other areas and so I think it's interesting that you found something that you were excited enough about to just launch into a new industry and do something totally different and also do it in a different way than other people in the industry are.
Speaker 2 01:15:03 No, I, I just, um, I think there's a lot of value here. When I say value, not so much for me. I mean, I've, I've gotten my personal value out of it, but I think there's value in helping people with a lot of different things that they're dealing with. Uh, whether that being, you know, trying not to use synthetic opioids or depression or anxiety or, you know, performance, athletic performance what, whatever it's, you know, if consumed, you know, in moderation. And, uh, it's a, you know, it's a wonderful plant medicine.
Speaker 0 01:15:40 It really is. It really is. Well, I'm glad you, you created it. Thanks for doing all the r and d and making yourself half sick doing it. <laugh>, sometimes <laugh>. I don't think I'd want to be the Guinea pig for that one, but yeah, man, it's great. You know, like I said, I drank some on the way here and I dunno, it's cool. It's been a huge added benefit in my life, so I'm so glad that I discovered you and you're, you're part of the Austin crew here. We've got a lot of mutual friends now. I hope you move out here. We need more great minds like you people doing good things in the world. I
Speaker 2 01:16:07 Hope so too.
Speaker 0 01:16:08 Yeah. How's the, uh, how's the wife feel about the prospect of moving back here? You
Speaker 2 01:16:12 Know, since we're originally from Texas? Yeah. She's actually, uh, kind of excited about it. Oh,
Speaker 0 01:16:17 Cool. Yeah. Cool. Right on man. Well, I think that's it. Thank you so much for, for coming on the show today, man. Yeah. I'm glad we got to hook up and do this in person in such a beautiful studio. And Cal Cal Callahan. Give him a shout out. He's got a podcast called The Great Unlearn and you've been on that show as
Speaker 2 01:16:33 Well. Yeah. This, uh, this two times.
Speaker 0 01:16:36 Cool. So you guys listened to the great unlearn with my friend Callie. It was kind enough to let me walk in like a diva and just like start talking without having to set all the equipment up, which is really nice. Uh, I got one last question for you. Yeah. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you might share with us?
Speaker 2 01:16:53 I would say that, uh, I can't say the three, but, uh, I read Siddhartha by Herman has, and that just, you know, totally made me, you know, think about things differently.
Speaker 0 01:17:09 Wow. Yeah. I've not read that. I don't think, I don't think I have the mind to be able to read something that dense
Speaker 2 01:17:15 <laugh>. And then I, I also, I can't remember the author's name, but I read, uh, the Hour between Dog and Wolf.
Speaker 0 01:17:21 Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 01:17:22 Um, and that's really, um, a layman's neuroscience kind of condensed, uh, understanding of, and that's where I got all the, you know, understanding of the new brain, the old brain, the vagus nerve and how all that actually works. And that was another, you know, real eye-opener for
Speaker 0 01:17:44 Me. That's very cool. I wonder what happens to your, uh, H R V when you drink? Feel free. That'd be an interesting and pretty easy experiment. I might even do that myself with my Ora ring. Yeah. You know, do a test before baseline, just sitting there, not doing anything relaxing.
Speaker 2 01:17:59 Yeah. If you do that, let me know. I'd like to,
Speaker 0 01:18:01 Yeah, it'd be ing right what it does. I love the quantification. I mean the aura ring is, you know, uh, I mean I think it's accurate enough to track your sleep and your r v but now there there are more, uh, tech devices and stuff emerging that give you more, you know, more concrete quantification.
Speaker 2 01:18:17 It's an interesting point you bring up because a lot of people report that they have much deeper sleep with, uh, feel free. Now, I'm not saying to to drink it right before you go to bed, but, you know, drinking it early in the day. And what's even more interesting is a lot of people report, uh, a lot more vivid dreams.
Speaker 0 01:18:39 I've noticed
Speaker 2 01:18:40 That. And I've definitely, I, I don't think before, I don't ever really, I know you have 'em every night, you just don't remember 'em. I don't really remember having dreams, but now I have intense brains.
Speaker 0 01:18:54 Yeah. That's interesting. I have noticed that too. And good tip on not drinking it right before bed. Yeah. Is, it can be a little bit stimulating. So I usually, yeah, I probably, I can drink it later than I would drink a coffee. You know? I, cuz last night we went out to a great dinner Yeah. At Carve. Shout out to Carve here. Uh, amazing. Um, kind of steakhouse. And I drank probably half of one before I walked in cuz I was just smoked from work and I'm like, man, I'm gonna be sitting with 10 people right now. I gotta like turn on my personality. Same with me. You did? Yeah. Yeah. And then I went home and slept like a baby and had crazy ass dreams. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:19:28 I normally don't, I won't drink it after about five or six o'clock.
Speaker 0 01:19:31 Okay. Yeah. I think I can
Speaker 2 01:19:32 Play and I go to bed pretty early.
Speaker 0 01:19:35 Yeah. Well I go to bed. What time do you go to bed?
Speaker 2 01:19:37 Usually around 9, 9 30.
Speaker 0 01:19:38 Oh God, you're my hero. That's like my dream in life. Well that's why I can drink it at eight or nine cause I'm going to bed at 11 or 12. All right dude. So again, people can find you@botanictonics.com if you guys wanna check out, feel free again, you got a discount over there with the code, Luke 40 and the show notes for this episode are luke story.com/feel free. Jw, thanks so much for coming by, man.
Speaker 2 01:19:59 Thanks for having me, man.
Speaker 0 01:20:00 Yep. All
Speaker 2 01:20:00 Right,
Speaker 0 01:20:05 Well, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling hella free at the moment. I, I actually at the time of recording this outro, I drank about a quarter feel free, uh, about two hours ago. And I'm still feeling pretty good. Uh, really wild stuff man. It's, you know, it's not that often that I take something that I really in incorporate into my daily life and, uh, this has been one of them. So I was really excited to sit down with the man who created it and dude just struck gold. I don't know, he nailed it. He just found the right combo of the right things, put 'em together in the right way. And uh, I'm very excited to share his story and also turn you guys on to one of my, uh, favorite new obsessions. I mean a healthy obsession. Don't get me wrong, I'm not addicted.
Speaker 0 01:20:44 Don't worry. Uh, I'd also like to invite you to join me for next week's episode. It's called Biohacking for Women, red Light Hormones, fasting and Fitness with Kristen Wezel. And, uh, we've been getting a lot of requests from the ladies like, hey, this is a very dude dominant, uh, space here and the biohacking optimization performance, what's up with the ladies? We need to know how you do this cuz you do it differently. Turns out. So, uh, I'm very excited to share next week's episode with you. Kristen is just a firestorm, very cool woman, very knowledgeable, super real down to earth, uh, accessible, just like the perfect guest for me. So that's next week's show number 3 83. Now, if you want to, uh, take, feel free, the thing we were talking about in this conversation with Jerry for a test drive, all you have to do is go to botanic tonics.com and if use the code Luke 40 for a limited time, you're gonna save 40%.
Speaker 0 01:21:46 That's almost half, half off. Uh, I was surprised during the episode and I was like, Hey, what's the code? He is like, Luke 40. And afterward I was like, did you mean 40%? That's a lot. Like, do you even, is that you're basically given away? Feel free for free. I dunno what his margins are, but I thought that was cool. So you can find that@botanictonics.com. And again, the code is Luke 40 and I'm really stoked for you guys to try this amazing adaptogenic plant medicine blend. And I don't use the term plant medicine loosely. Um, you know, all plants I, I think are essentially medicine unless they're poisonous, depending on, uh, you know, the polyphenols and constituents molecularly speaking of said plant. But uh, this one really is like, uh, a head changer, you know what I mean? Like, you drink it and you realize something's happening and everyone, I think with the exception of one person that I've turned on to, uh, feel free, just freaking loves it.
Speaker 0 01:22:41 It's a huge, uh, crowd pleaser that, and, uh, John Laron says Zen Spray. Those are the two like I always have in my bag. And when I go to events and, you know, parties and stuff around Austin, or even when I travel, I usually have those in my flight bag and hence backpack. And when people are like, what's the new thing? You know, gimme something. Uh, those are the two I usually share and everyone freaks out. They just love it. So, uh, with that, I'm really excited to share that one with you because it just, I don't know, it feels good. You feel free. I did offer it to one person, uh, very close to me and I was like, it's called feel free, it makes you feel free. And she was like, dude, I already feel free <laugh>. And that was the one person that didn't enjoy it, but everyone else has because it's super lit.
Speaker 0 01:23:24 It's just an incredible drink. Um, I wanna give you a hot tip though. If you get some, feel free, I dunno if I mentioned this during the conversation, but you gotta shake the hell out of it because the, uh, plant fiber, you know, settles at the bottom. There's like some sediment. In fact, the one that I drank before recording this, I thought I was done and then I kind of held it up to the light. It's in this really pretty sort of cobalt blue bottle. And I, I realized, nope, there's still some medicine in there. So it was disgusting. I don't recommend this, but I poured a little bit of coffee in and then I shook the hell out of it and I got the rest of that medicine out of there and it was, it was hella good. I'm feeling great. Ready to do more recording.
Speaker 0 01:24:03 Uh, I've got some more exciting news for you too. I don't know if you heard, but I launched my own blue blocking eyewear brand two weeks ago, hot off the press as it's called Gilded. And you can find this blue blocking eyewear I speak of at Gilded by luke story.com. It's my first product. You know, I've been doing this podcast for six and a half years and people always ask me, man, why don't you make a product? And I just think, you know, everything's out there. But one thing that I couldn't find out, there was a pair of blue blockers that I really liked the looks of that kind of fit my aesthetic and my fashion sense, uh, that also were scientifically valid, right? That blocked the correct spectrum of blue light. And also that gave you like a true color, um, view. You know, a lot of the blue blockers just turned everything red and I can't drive in 'em and it's problematic.
Speaker 0 01:24:59 So I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna do the damn thing myself. And took me I think almost a year to get this done. I mean, it was in the middle of the pandemic and all of this shit. So it was, you know, just difficult to I think, um, engage new initiatives. But Hot dam, we did it. Um, much thanks to my, uh, assistant Bailey, who was really instrumental in helping me get the final pieces together and I'm really excited to share that with you. So again, to uh, protect your melatonin and your sleep and get your circadian rhythm looking and feeling good, go to gilded by luke story.com. That's G I l d gilded by luke story.com. And I think that's it, you guys. Uh, I think what we've done, all the, uh, obligatory plugs we have delivered what I hope was an inspiring and fun and informative conversation unto you.
Speaker 0 01:25:54 And with that, I'm gonna go ahead and call it a day and just invite you to join us next week again with Kristen Weitzel. And, uh, especially if you happen to be walking around in a female body during this lifetime, it's gonna be really useful. But don't let that scare off the guys because you probably have women in your life and you're also going to learn a lot about, specifically in next week's show, red Light Therapy. This is something I've been into for a long time and I don't think I'm gonna stop anytime soon because the benefits of Red Light Therapy are not only unisex, but they're just universal and widely applicable. I mean, there's like, it's kinda like ozone. It's like what does red light not do? What does ozone not do? There's some of these things, especially in the realm of, uh, you know, elements of our natural world that we can use technology to mimic and amplify and also make more portable. So next week's show is going to be hot, no pun intended. Get it. Red Light Therapy. Thank you so much, one love. May peace be with you.
