The Intuitive Warrior Podcast
JW joins The Intuitive Warrior Podcast to talk about how his long struggle with alcohol addiction inspired him to create Feel Free, a non-alcoholic tonic made from ancient plant ingredients. In this podcast JW and the Intuitive Warrior dive into the traditional uses of plant medicine in the South Pacific and Southeast Asia, and JW explains how kava and kratom can help us feel good and perform better in our modern world.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey guys, what's happening? Welcome to the podcast. I'm psyched to be bringing you this one. I think we're gonna talk about something you guys are all gonna be psyched about because so many people are avoiding alcohol right now, which, you know, I've talked a lot about how a lot of times health comes down to what we say no to, more than what we say a yes to. And alcohol is one of those big red flags that when you are on a health journey, you are trying to improve your health. Reducing your alcohol consumption is one of the most important things you can do along with quitting things like smoking, if that's relevant to you. But as it relates to adding, a lot of us run and we try to find the sort of latest and greatest, you know, green juice smoothie or smoothie bar or you know, what can we sort of add?
Speaker 0 00:00:43 And we always want the big flashy thing when in fact one of the most critical things for almost all of us, in fact, like 75 or 80% of us are deficient in this nutrient, in this mineral. And the rest of us are sort of on our way there because there's none of it left in the soils. We've just depleted our soils of magnesium. And everyone's talking about it right now. Dr. Hyman's talking about it. Andrew Huberman is now talking about it. Basically every health industry authority and doctor has either had a podcast about it or they're talking about it right now because there's this humongous list of symptoms and disease that is only seemingly getting longer every time you check it that are being treated with magnesium. In fact, it's been used forever to treat, you know, arrhythmias, constipation, even seizures. And now again, that list is just getting longer and longer and longer because more and more people are deficient in this critical nutrient and it's absolutely essential to our health and our wellbeing, even our emotional health.
Speaker 0 00:01:42 It's a big problem because we're all sort of, as I said, we're kind of on the path to deficiency if we're not deficient already because there's just not much of it left. I was fortunate to actually see the other day I saw there now adding it to some really good salts, which can be good, but you gotta make sure you get the right forms, especially for the, for the issues that you're having because there's not just one type of magnesium. There's seven different types that we need really all of to ensure that the magnesium we're consuming is getting into the area of the body effectively where we need it. Now you guys know I'm not like an advocate of taking a bunch of supplements and not eating healthy, right? Or like not eating, you know, all sorts of fruits and vegetables and meats and things like that.
Speaker 0 00:02:28 But as I said, there's like none of this stuff left in the soil and it's almost a joke if you, if you listen to my recent podcast on Joe Robinson's book, I, I think it was called like our fruits and vegetables really worth it anymore in 2022. I recorded that podcast because now we're needing to eat 10 oranges to get the nutritional value that was in one just 10 years ago. And Apples, which I talk about on that podcast, it's a hundred x. So you know, if you had an apple a couple of hundred years ago, you would now have to eat 100 apples to get the nutrition that used to be in that apple. And obviously you wouldn't do that for a lot of reasons probably, cuz you know, you'd be on the toilet the rest of the day, but you're also getting a ton of sugar, right?
Speaker 0 00:03:10 So there's almost this like decline in nutrition happening simultaneously with this rise in sugar the way we're kind of creating crops now. But fortunately my good friends over at by optimizers have a solution and it's called Magnesium Breakthrough. This is really the only supplement that I've found that has all seven types of magnesium inside of it so that that magnesium can reach every tissue inside your body so you get the maximum benefit from it. And right now you can try by optimizers, magnesium Breakthrough and any other by optimizers product for that matter for 10% off. Just head on over to mag breakthrough.com/runa. That's M A G B R E A K T H R O U G h.com/runa and use code Runa 10 to boost your intake of magnesium and start feeling awesome today. Don't wait to be deficient. Start taking the best magnesium and improve your wellbeing right now@magbreakthrough.com slash
Speaker 0 00:04:26 In today's episode, I chat with JW Ross. JW started his career as a businessman in the oil and gas industry and as we would say made it big cars, jets, houses, you name it, he had it. Unfortunately all that success also brought on a serious alcohol addiction for j w and j W is one of the lucky ones. You know, he got the right treatment, he, you know, reversed his addiction. He's been married for 20 years, happily he has two grown children, but until recently he has still craved alcohol. He's still craved that sort of social lubricant and that's when his travels around the world and his desire to feel free as he did when he used to drink alcohol collided and led him to formulate. And he tells us this, this story, which is amazing, this sort of commitment to the formulation led him to formulate this tonic that is completely free of alcohol but can be used in the exact same way either socially or at work or even before a yoga class.
Speaker 0 00:05:26 Anytime you want to feel or evoke that similar state of calm and focus as a small amount of alcohol might JWS Tonic is called Feel Free. And you may have seen it recently on your favorite Instagram influencers account, maybe even mine, even if I'm not your favorite, you still might have seen it there. <laugh>, it's a really cool product and it really packs a punch. I drink about a half a bottle twice a week and that's either after a long day or when I'm hanging out with friends. Anytime you'd really consume alcohol, anytime you'd sort of be like, I could use a glass of wine, right, right now I could use beer right now. If that's your thing, that's when you would reach for one of these little blue bottles. And if you guys ever feel that way and you'd like to try, feel free, you can do it right now at a huge discount thanks to JW and this podcast, just visit botanic tonics.com, that's B O T A N I C tonics.com and check out with Code Runa 40, all one word Runa 40.
Speaker 0 00:06:22 And that's gonna save you over $50 if you buy a whole case of feel free, which lasts me about three months at twice weekly consumption. The bottles are small, they're not gonna take up your whole fridge, but you should refrigerate them and be ready for anybody that opens up your fridge to ask about them <laugh>, it's like, it's this constant conversation starter and, and it's really cool because seemingly everyone these days is at least trying to cut back, if not eliminate their alcohol consumption. It's almost like, you know, I think our alcohol consumption peaked when, you know, over the last bunch of years everyone was sort of looking for ways to continue to consume alcohol but like mitigate the problems or the downsides. Like what pills can I take to not have a hangover? You know, obviously I love Dry Farm Wines, it's what we serve at Runa.
Speaker 0 00:07:07 You know, you can drink some of that and not have a hangover, but now people are sort of going into the no alcohol zone and that's where feel free comes in. Really cool stuff guys. And I think you're really gonna dig this show. JW Story is pretty awesome and it was such a pleasure getting to know him a little bit and hearing more about the sort of journey and of course the ingredients and sort of why he chose these specific ingredients in these dosages for this really cool product. Feel free. So hope you guys enjoy this show. And just before we dive in, I just wanted to send a quick shout out to my good friends over at Traeger Grills. I'm so excited. Two more brand new grills just landed on my doorstep for our runa event next month. We're equipping our amazing chef with these bad boys to grill, smoke, bake, roast, barbecue and Braze nine incredible feasts over three days for our guests.
Speaker 0 00:07:56 And I'm sure they're gonna remember these meals for the rest of their lives cuz they're gonna be amazing. I think we just ordered like 200 bison ribeyes the other day. Something crazy like that. It's gonna be totally epic. And because of Trier's incredible technology they call wifi, we know every steak is gonna be absolutely perfect. Our chef could literally be in the house preparing something else and the grill is gonna text him when it's time to say flip the steak. It's amazing. And not that our career chef needs it, but for you home chefs out there like me, the Traeger app is now loaded with something like 2000 recipes that basically help you cook just about anything you could consider cooking or smoking on your Traeger Grill. And again, it connects to your phone so you almost couldn't mess it up if you tried. And that's been sort of the ticket for me to step into some of these unknowns, right?
Speaker 0 00:08:43 Like I would never try to like do, you know, some complicated long cook where you have to like modify and wrap it in tinfoil, take the tinfoil off, put it directly on the mat, like all of those steps the Traeger makes, makes those types of cooks a breeze because it's basically walking you through every step of the cook. So you can kind of like go all in and on yourself, mix it up. Don't just buy the sirloin steak or the crown beef, you know, venture into the unknown and kind of rest assured that the app's gonna help you out. So if you wanna check out the exact grills that we use at Runa, and of course the one I have at home, 365 days a year, head on over to traeger.com/runa, that's T R A E G E r.com/runa and check out their grills. They are amazing.
Speaker 0 00:09:27 All right guys, now enjoy today's show with j w Ross. Well hey, so it's great to have you here and and it is, you know, it is this, there's this definite like downturn in alcohol consumption and I'm seeing it, you know, even in the store is, you know, it used to be hard to find like a non-alcoholic beer and now there's like a whole a whole case of it, right? So I think alcohol is kind of, you know, it kind of ran amuck. And I, and I'd love to kind of dive into a little bit of your past JW just because, you know, I've heard you on some other podcasts talking about like a little bit of this work hard play hard mentality that so many of us use. And on this podcast I've talked a lot about maximization versus optimization. And when you maximize, when you, you know, I use the example a lot of like, you know, the, the person that's like, so career driven, they want to be a millionaire by, you know, 35 and then they finally achieve it and their whole life is falling apart, they're overweight, you know, they have some sort of major issue outside of that one career goal cause they put all their eggs in that basket.
Speaker 0 00:10:28 And I'm curious just in terms of your history and kind of what led you to the path you're on now as it relates to this like work hard, play hard mentality and, and then really exploring a little bit into alcohol and, and how you see the, that space changing in this, in this modern era.
Speaker 2 00:10:45 Ok. So I started out, uh, in the oil and gas business in the early eighties and in Texas and literally started from the very bottom working just in the field as a, as a laborer, was able to fairly quickly kinda get the understanding of how the oil and gas game is played. And fortunately also, I had, um, some friends of mine who their parents were in the business, uh, pretty major way. And a couple of those, uh, men, uh, in particular, you know, became my mentors and, you know, kinda coached me on how to become a wildcatter, as they would call it. But, um, you know, my family life prior to that, uh, never really was close to any of my family. My family, a very loving feeling, very distant, interact with, you know, other people. I found it, you know, awkward and and hard.
Speaker 2 00:11:59 And then I think I was probably 15, 16 years old. Uh, I was introduced to alcohol and, you know, it was love at first sight moment, you know, remember exactly the first strength that I had, the feeling that I had that social awkwardness or, you know, not being able to feel comfortable, skin went away immediately. And that started a, you know, multi love affair that, uh, you know, in the beginning was wonderful. You know, the, the mentors that I talked about that I, you know, looked up to, you know, in hindsight now were were all, you know, high functioning alcoholics, you know, in the oil gas business it was you, you work hard, but you play even harder. It just, you know, massive amounts of, uh, consumption of alcohol and, and other stuff too, but primarily, um, alcohol. And, uh, it, they kind went down parallel path.
Speaker 2 00:13:05 You know, I, I became successful for what I thought success meant at that time. Times a hundred planes, the big houses, the cars, the boats, all that kinda stuff. And with that, my alcohol consumption, you know, continued to escalate. And, um, the climax of all that was, we were event our, and there was about 400, 500 people at the house. And I found myself sitting in the, uh, bedroom by myself, uh, you know, drinking hand, just realizing that I was absolutely miserable here. I had, you know, more than everything that I'd ever dreamed about. Um, and I just was not happy. And, and this is about the period of time too, that, you know, alcohol started turning on me and I started having, you know, issues. I got a DUI here or there, you know, just saying stuff I shouldn't say at parties and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 00:14:12 Things started kind of unraveling. Fortunately, I was, uh, had an intervention and, uh, wound up gonna treatment, uh, in Atlanta, a 90-day inpatient treatment. And at that, uh, that facility is interesting facility cause it, um, specialized in airplane pilots and doctors, which was really good for me. Cause you know, what I struggle with was that, you know, I can control everything else in my life and I'm from parents very successful, but, you know, why can't I control this? And I kept trying, you know, different methods to, to do that. And in the setting of treatment, I saw other, you know, very successful professionals that were, you know, experiencing the same thing. I was, you know, the, the treatments, you know, sessions themselves were great and kinda set the stage. But I think the, the real moment for me that I remember that really changed my life was one evening I was living in a condo with, uh, three three and we were watching The Beautiful Mind with Russell Crow about John Nash, uh, who was the genius mathematician, but also psychotic.
Speaker 2 00:15:40 And this is towards the end of the movie where he's walking, he doing, walking along with his, uh, arch guy goes, you see them and looks sober. There they are, you know, walking along beside him, you know, waving at him, his imaginary, you know, friends. And he looked back at him. He said, yeah, I still see them, but I learned not to engage with them. And it dawned on me that I'm no different than he is. I've got this voice in my head that tells me, you know, you can do this and it's not real yet. I'm acting on it. And, and also at that point, Dawn told me that, you know, I had lived my life believing everything that I thought and acting on pretty much everything I thought. And what I come to realize was that 80% of what I'm hearing from my mind is not, you know, it's not real. It's just noise. So I started really delving into neuroscience and really trying to understand, you know, why I had been operating the way I was and why that wasn't working and why I wasn't happy. And that was 12 years ago and it's the last time I had a drink of alcohol.
Speaker 0 00:17:05 Well, let me ask you this. J w if, do you think you would've reached the level of success you reached the cars, the planes without alcohol?
Speaker 2 00:17:15 I don't think that I would've, I think that I was socially awkward enough and I don't think I would've fit into the crowd that I I fit into to be able to get to where I was, where I got to. I think they went hand in hand. I know that's a weird thing to say, but you know, what I found in life is there's been, there's been plenty of negative things that have happened in my life. And those things have probably more so than the positive things today. They say, you know, they sharpen you or whatever, whatever term you wanna use, but they do make you a different person.
Speaker 0 00:17:59 Yeah, it's interesting to sort of look at it in that way, you know, because with alcohol as an example, it's as a health coach, it's, it's interesting to look at people's behaviors and habits and wonder why do people drink? Like it's gonna ruin your day tomorrow. Like you're gonna probably say something you shouldn't say at the bar you're gonna like, but then when you look at this, if someone is goal oriented and they know maybe they have this discomfort in their own skin, as you say, they have this sort of social anxiety and in some ways like the alcohol is like a kickstand or a crutch to actually stay on the path towards being the social creature that sometimes we need to be, especially as it relates to business deals and things like that. So there's this, and it's also I suppose why it's important to not judge anything that happens as good or bad right in the moment. Because sometimes it's, it's just your path.
Speaker 2 00:18:49 Yeah, yeah. No, it's alcohol is, is a very effective social lubricant. It works extremely well that the problem with alcohol, which is kinda the same problem with a lot of other highly processed substances, is that it is very hard to regulate. It's very easy to cross over that line. It also has a very short life. That's why you, you have to have drink after drink after drinks. No, in my minds no difference than, you know, having a lot of, you want another, you want another, you want another one. Cause the feeling doesn't last that long. It's very easy then to trip over that line. You know, one of the things I discovered when I started really digging into social lubricants was that, you know, you have a handful of different social lubricants around the world, of which alcohol's one, but alcohols an outlier. Cause all the rest of them, as they were used in our native societies, were not processed. Alcohol is processed. And I think that, um, we now in the west have taken some of these other social lubricants that were used in different societies and processed those. And you have the same issues. An example would be, you know, taking covid leaves and making cocaine outta it. So I think, you know, one of the things that I've discovered is that you really shouldn't be messing with mother nature and changing the form of, of these, you know, wonderful plants. Because when you do that have, you can have unintended consequences.
Speaker 0 00:20:35 I think that's a brilliant point, especially, you know, when we're always doing this, right? So in terms of like what we could say is negative is, you know, making cocaine, but then we're also doing it, you know, in terms of like, you know, the 95% procurement. I just, you know, maybe took this morning. It's like, well that too, right? That's a pro M c T oil, right? Like that's all of these things are, are actually processed and, and they've actually taken the full plant and created something whether good, bad, however we wanna label it.
Speaker 2 00:21:07 Yeah. I had a conversation this morning with a group of guys and we were talking about it and I had this theory about, you know, if you really think about it, all the good, you know, plants, substances for you a really bad taste. They're very, and I think it's mother nature's way of keeping you from over consuming them. I mean, if they tasted really good and they've made you feel really good, you just go down. They're, for the most part, they're, they're very you to take wise. And I think that's a natural safeguard that's been put, don't over consume them. When you process them, you're able to get thousands of times more into your system in a shorter period of time and you don't have the full suite of different compounds that are in them to kinda balance and regulate. Uh, and I see that with, you know, even one of the ingredients that we're using cra you know, CRA's been used for thousands of years in Southeast Asia as a t with no social or physical issues. But then we take it here in the west and do the same process that you do with, with cocaine. We take, you know, solvents or CO2 and extract two outta 50 OIDs and create something that's totally different that yes, it's, you know, it's not good for you to take.
Speaker 0 00:22:37 Makes total sense. And I, and I would love to start to get into some of these other quote social lubricants because you know, kind of where we we started is, you know, I've been blown away just like walking through the grocery store and seeing like entire cases of non-alcoholic beers. So it's almost like we're starting to see, and before we turn the, the podcast on, you had talked about like the path that wine or alcohol is kind of taking. There's this like steady decline. And I mentioned that even, you know, at an event we hosted recently, we had a lot significant amount of extra wine. And that was something that in the past we typically don't have. So we're seeing this trend away from alcohol into non-alcoholic social lubricants, I suppose. I don't know if they work if there's no alcohol, but, uh, in terms of alternatives to alcohol compounds, some of the things you found around the world, you just mentioned creta, maybe we, maybe we even start there. How do those compare to alcohol in terms of that effect? Like and I suppose in full form?
Speaker 2 00:23:35 Well, to start with, as I said, you know, alcohol is is an extremely effective, you know, social lubricant that said, uh, as you, as you you pointed out what I think is happening is alcohol is historically has been so ingrained in our society. It's around celebrations, it's around holidays, it's, you know, birthdays. It's with food, you know, you, you've got certain pairings of this with, you know, so, so it's, it's like it's, it's a given that it's, you know, it's part of what you consume and you're actually, and I can remember this in the past, you're looked on as strange in some social circles. If you don't drink, uh, you're kinda like, you know, what's wrong with you? I think, you know, what I'm seeing is that people are starting to wake up to, you know, that I don't have to do that, that I do have alternatives.
Speaker 2 00:24:35 And I think also people are starting to become educated that, uh, it's, it's always been interesting to me cause I'll be sitting and talking to someone and they'll be talking about, you know, how health conscious they are, they don't eat junk food and they work out every day and they got a drink sitting in front of, and I'm like, that's probably, that's junk food. It's highly processed, it's high in sugar, but they don't make the connection between the two. Cause it's so ingrained in their society and accepted. I think what's what I'm seeing, you know now, cause I talked to, you know, literally thousands of people is that, you know, you have this wedge of society, which all of us know about that are, you know, alcoholics and have things like, I did car crashes and job and so and so on. But then you have this much larger wedge of people that they haven't crashed a car, they haven't lost a job, but God, I wish I hadn't said that last night.
Speaker 2 00:25:40 Or, you know, I just feel like shit every morning, uh, you know, after. And just their life is a little bit outta balance and you're like, you know, it's starting to get to the point where the benefit is not outweighing the, the, the downside. They're not stopping, but they're, they're at that point where they're going, you know, is this really worth it? And it's interesting to me because you have, like you mentioned, these non-alcoholic beers and things like that. That's not really what people are looking for <laugh>. They don't wanna just go to the party and, and look like they're drinking. They wanna feel, they want that social lubrication, but they want it without the downside of, you know, the things that I mentioned before. And fortunately now there are some, you know, there's some real choices out there that, you know, can give you the social lubrication. Um, and they're not, I mean, they've been around for thousands of years. They just weren't uh, exposed in the west.
Speaker 0 00:26:46 Right. I love that. And I love, I love kind of saying that health and wellness and fitness, it's like we're moving forwards and backwards at the same time. You know, even our runa events, we've got, you know, people departing a sound bath with a gong and, uh, you know, singing ball and getting an injection of N A D and going into a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. So it's like, you know, we're kind of going forwards and backwards and not, and not losing sight of the fact that like the gong and the healing that we got from that has been around for, you know, many thousands of years. It's time.
Speaker 2 00:27:18 I mean, to me that's, that's a beautiful thing. I love seeing that. I love seeing people, you know, that are, that are doing a full suite of, of health and wellness. Cause I think that's what it's all about.
Speaker 0 00:27:32 I do too. And I'm, and I do wanna get into maybe even your sort of, apart from any substances or anything you use for social lubrication, you know, what you're complimenting that with in your own life, whether it be breath work and yoga or you know, a another discipline that maybe you're into, but specifically starting to dive in. You had mentioned prum. What else can you tell us about that j w like, you know, where is it from and how does it work and how does it feel?
Speaker 2 00:27:58 Yeah, soum is, um, it's a tree in the coffee family that grows throughout Southeast Asia. Traditionally, how it's been used for the last three years is they take the leaves off, they drive them, they grind them, and they make a outta it parts of Southeast Asia, you'll see these little road stick in it. And they drink it throughout the day, very similar to how we drink, you know, coffee or tea here. And the primary purpose of it is for workers that are working, you know, 12 hour days, 14 hour days, seven days a week, not to not only endure that, but also to have a good time doing it because it, it's, it does not, it's kinda hard to describe. It doesn't inebriate you, but it makes you feel good. And at the same time it gives you, uh, it's a productivity enhance, uh, it provides endurance. So it's a wonderful plant and drink in that form is when we change it into the high concentration extract or synthetic that it becomes something totally different.
Speaker 0 00:29:16 Makes sense. And you mentioned it's from the coffee family, which is interesting. And I suppose it makes sense in terms of, in terms of enduring those long days. Is there caffeine in it?
Speaker 2 00:29:26 Caffeine it uses, um, it uses 50, I think there's 52 or 50 threes is where the, uh, those are the active compounds. So it uses the, like, you know, you get the caffeine and, and uh, and coffee or tea,
Speaker 0 00:29:44 Right. And I, and I imagine it, it probably has some impact on our neurotransmitters, right? I'm just trying to think of, you know, what kind of action. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:29:54 Yeah. So it's, it's a, you know, a wonderful plant drink, been around forever. The, the other one that we use is kava. And Kava is the root of a, uh, pepper plant from the Pacific Islands. Again, been used thousands of years and it's, it's used as a social lubricant. Uh, so if you go into, I got back just, uh, a few days ago from, uh, from, and you go out anywhere and you're gonna see bars, uh, these, you know, very basic on the side of shells and consume that <affirmative>, you know, in the evenings and weekends, just like we consume alcohol here and have been for, you know, for the last several thousand years. They, they didn't have alcohol up until, you know, we introduced it. And, you know, it's a, it's kind of a euphoric sense of relaxation and, you know, it just makes you, you know, it's kinda a pleasant experience. And we mix and, and, and feel free, we mix the two together. It's primarily a kava that's a 10 to one ratio to, uh, to create.
30 Minute Mark
Speaker 0 00:31:17 I was gonna ask that, like how did you kind of, I'm curious what the, what when you started to formulate, and maybe even before we get there, jw. So where were you first introduced to Cabo? Was this something that, you know, over the years you've kind of like played with or, or when, when did you first kind of get introduced to these plants?
Speaker 2 00:31:38 My first experience with Cabo was about 35 years ago. I went with a group of guys. We were just on a, an adventure and we wound up in pwa and we wound up getting invited by the village chief to, uh, participate in a traditional, uh, ceremony. And it was a wonderful experience and it kind of stuck in the back of my mind. I didn't keep consuming it after that cause I was, you know, alcohol was my drug of choice. And then I launched a, um, a FinTech company, software company in Southeast Asia. And I lived there for about two and half, three years while was, was introduced to, uh, toum. So that's, and but neither, neither one of these plants by themselves I would say were, you know, that light bulb, life-changing moment. I went back, you know, to, uh, to alcohol. But it, you know, I was, you know, as I said, I haven't had a drink in 12 years.
Speaker 2 00:32:43 I was, you know, still looking for something. Even though my life was so much better without alcohol, I still had this social awkwardness and just really wasn't having fun in life the way that I wanted to. And so I was, you know, continuing this quest to try to find something that, you know, would provide that for me without the downside. And I, you know, I would try everything, you know, if some new product come out, I would try it. I tried everything legal and most of that, you know, it didn't really do anything for me. I tried everything illegal. Most of that did weigh too much for me. And I had, was just sitting around and I started, you know, think I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to do this myself. So I set up a lab at my house, didn't have any background doing this type of thing.
Speaker 2 00:33:36 And it really wasn't something I was doing to commercialize it, I was just doing it for my own consumption. And I started ordering plants in from around the world, and not just these two plants, but several others. And started, um, experimenting with them, uh, different ratios, different strains. And that was about a two year process. And I finally found the right to the right percentages. And once I had it the very first time, it was like, you know, that reminded me of that feeling I had when I had that first drink of alcohol. And I was sharing it with friends and they said, same thing. They're like, man, this stuff is great and you need to sell it. And that's how, that's how feel Free was born.
Speaker 0 00:34:25 I love that. And it is so true too. You know, I have like this tumultuous coffee relationship and it's like, there's so much just like, you wanna start your day and like, if you don't do the, if you don't do the thing, then it's just like, there's a piece, there's like a void. It's like, even if you're not, like, you know, with alcohol as an example, even if you're not like craving it, like you're over it, it's been 10 years, 12 years, it's like, it's still nice to kind of just like be sipping something, be part of the event, be have that little bit of social lubrication. And it's so tricky. Coffee is an example for anyone struggling with coffee addiction. It's just almost impossible to find a replacement. And I imagine that's kind of the journey with the alcohol guiding you in terms of like knowing how you wanna feel and nothing, nothing on the market. Definitely.
Speaker 2 00:35:13 Yeah. One of the things I noticed was that, you know, even after years and years and years of not drinking, I would be, you know, in a restaurant or in an airport or something and, and someone would come by with a glass of wine or whatever, and it just, you know, I had that craving as if, you know, I had been a week before and it never went away. And it was, you know, it was annoying. So, I mean, that was part of it was, you know, I was, I was concerned that one day I would slip and start drinking again, part, I know where that ends. And um, you know, I decided to make it, you know, my number one priority to to, to find something, to, to replace it.
Speaker 0 00:36:06 I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 00:36:08 And, and what's interesting since I've started doing feel free, that craving has gone totally away. I don't, I don't think about it anymore. And I've heard that from others too. Consuming, feel free.
Speaker 0 00:36:23 Yeah, I love that. So, so it's a 10 to one. So 10 parts kava, one part Crao. What were the effects, like when you were tinkering in your home lab? Like, you know, what is the effect of too much crao versus too little kava, or, you know, how do you, how do people feel on these substances on their own? You mentioned on their own, they, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:36:46 It's very similar to cannabis. Uh, there's, you know, hundreds of different strains, ofum, and there's hundreds of, of, you know, they do different things based on the ratio of, uh, that are in them. So, you know, when you start, you know, and Nolan had ever mixed these two plants together cause they came from two totally different places in world, you know, when you mix them together, you start getting all kinds of different reactions. So in some cases, you know, I would get, you know, kind of a jittery, you know, really amped up, jittery feeling. In some cases I'd get, you know, almost totally knocked out. I remember there was several times where my wife, uh, was, you know, very concerned about me. And, you know, she thought I'd lost my mind in, you know, in doing this to myself. But, uh, I was determined that, you know, for, for some reason I knew that I could figure it out. And I knew it just, you know, it was gonna take time and effort to do it. And I just kept working at it and finally figured it out.
Speaker 0 00:37:59 I love that. And just for the avoidance of doubt, for those listening, crao is, and kava, they're both legal. Like there's no, do you expect that to, to continue? Is there any chance that any of these compounds might go away in the country?
Speaker 2 00:38:13 So, uh, kava has always been legal, no issues. Uhum actually has had a kinda assorted past. And the basis of it is around what I talked about earlier, it's the high concentration extracts and synthetics, you know, uh, there's been a short period of time in the early two tens where it was, you know, a scheduled substance, but it was overturned by Congress, which is the only time that that's ever happened. And currently it is federal legal and it's legal in all the six states on a state level. Fortunately, we have been working to get legislation passed. We now have it passed in six states and 17 more process of passing it that, um, further legalizes cra but it also, uh, sets limits on contamination. Like, and it outlaw is the high concentration extract synthetics, because currently we were the only, uh, shot that's on the market. That's not a high concentration extract or synthetic.
Speaker 0 00:39:23 I love that. I love that. And I am curious, when you were in that, you know, journey and your wife thought you were nuts and you were creating the formula, I wanna get into the, the full leaf again and, and talk about, you know, basically why you chose the little blue bottle and the liquid tonic as opposed to like putting a full, you know, a full leaf product in a capsule or, you know, I see a lot of like kava tinctures, you know, what is it about the tonic that that drew you in? Is it cuz I could do a soda water? I,
Speaker 2 00:39:53 I was trying to, I think in my mind, uh, I was trying to honor tradition and trying to honor mother nature and, you know, and, you know, I'm not a scientist or anything else, but my mind, I thought, you know, this is the way it's been done for 3000 years, you know, in both these societies, I don't see any evidence of social or physical harm. If I can just leave it like that and not mess with it, I think that's a much better way to go. It was not easy. It would've been much easier to default to the high concentration extracts, synthetics. I understand now why everybody else uses them, but I was determined to figure out a way to do it the way it's, you know, been done for thousands of years. And I think it's a much better product that way. And, you know, based on the, the, uh, the testing that we've done, including testing on myself, you know, I think it's, it's vastly better than, than, uh, anything else out there.
Speaker 0 00:41:01 I love that. And, and you know, you kind of alluded to it, so these high concentration extracts and, and synthetics, you know, because I know if I Google, you know, just about anything, right? If I Google crao or even Cava, it's probably gonna tell me it's gonna kill me, and it's, you know, it's gonna destroy my liver. So I think a lot of the safety concerns that are probably on the web about these products, they're, they're more referring to those extracts and these, you know, these, these tribes and things that have been doing it for thousands of years. Like they're, they're not walking around with liver problems or anything like that, is my guess.
Speaker 2 00:41:33 Correct? Correct. And, and you, we, we actually, uh, we're in the process of doing, uh, clinicals on, um, uh, so we actually, we do, we have a patent application process public, we're extracting the fla a b outta it. Uh, we're the only ones that are doing that. And the reason for that is that, um, there is some resource suggest maybe that there is some, some, some health links to that. We decided to do that, uh, in order just to be an extra level of safety. I don't really personally believe that, that there's a direct link. I think it has more to do with noble versus non noble. You, we, so we're
Speaker 0 00:42:34 That's great. And it, it's also just kind of comical too, right, in that like, you know, there's this new plant extract, it gives you this euphoric state, it's amazing. It feels great. It's a great social lubricant, but, you know, we're super worried about, you know, say liver toxicity. Meanwhile alcohol is like destroying people's lives. And like, you know, so it's funny how like, as you said, alcohol has been so normalized. It's like, no matter how bad it is, it's probably not as bad as like the, like five shots of whiskey or whatever. People are,
Speaker 2 00:43:07 Well, I mean, back from Pacific Islands, you've got millions of people that have been consuming, uh, you know, massive amounts, CVA on a daily basis, and there's virtually no cancer, there's no other health issues. You know, it's, but then you look at alcohol and it's, you know, very well documented that, you know, alcohol consumption is extremely hard on your liver. But it's the fact that, as I talked about earlier, alcohol is such a part of the fabric, our society, that it gets pass. And, you know, as opposed to really looking at the facts, you know, people kind of just, they wanna just ignore it. When, you know, alcohol again is just like most other highly processed foods. It's, it's not, it's not good for your healthwise. It's, it's no, you know, I remember a doctor told me one time, he said, what's, he goes, I find it ironic. He goes, from my perspective, the two drugs that are the hardest on your body physically are the legal ones, tobacco and alcohol. He said a lot of these other drugs aren't really that, you know, harmful for you physically. It may be, you know, other issues, but, but not physically. But he said it's, it's, he just, he found it fascinating that, you know, for some reason, you know, we had legalized the two that really the hardest on him.
Speaker 0 00:44:47 Absolutely. And there was a, there was a chart going around online, you know, Instagram or wherever I saw it, but it's basically got like every drug, you know, at the bottom of the bar graph. And it's like, you know, whatever the metric on the other side is, it's like, you know, basically destructiveness or incidents of, you know, fatality, whatever it was. And it's like some of the most, like banned substances have the absolute lowest, you know, mark on the graph. And then as you said, it's like alcohol is like the front runner, like more than like anything else. And it's, and it's of course the legal one. So kind
Speaker 2 00:45:24 Tobacco, tobacco consumption has dropped dramatically over decades. And I'm starting to see stats where alcohol is, seems to be following that same path. I think it's gonna take a lot longer. <laugh>, we're in the very early stages of it, but I do think that, uh, especially younger people are, you know, waking up the fact that, you know, and, and I think what also helps is that people do have choices now. I mean, I, I don't really think there in, you know, in my day there really wasn't, there really wasn't any choices when you either either drank and fit in or you, or you, you know, you were kinda out on the outcast.
Speaker 0 00:46:09 That makes total sense. And, and also there's an interesting connection as well in terms of there's this, and of course like there's pockets and there's, you know, living in Austin, Texas, I'm probably deep in this community. But with all of this, so many of us now are doing what we can to become more mindful, more conscious, increase, are comfortable, uh, are are comfort in our own skin. As you would say, like with all of this work on the yoga mat as an example, it's almost like alcohol is a numbing agent. Alcohol is kind of doing the reverse of all of this hard work that many people are now doing. And I know there's another group of people that are not doing that work, but I think too is almost like, it's just incongruent, right? It's like it, you spend all day really, you know, studying mindfulness or, you know, reading about consciousness or, or doing yoga, the sort of, you know, lights have been turned on that, you know, this thing actually makes you less yourself and you're spending all of your days and all of your time and all of your energy trying to become more yourself.
Speaker 0 00:47:09 So there's this like incongruence.
Speaker 2 00:47:12 Yeah, I think that, you know, something that I've, I've been thinking about a lot recently, and fact, it was up on this last trip that, um, alcohol, you yourself, you, you, you turn inward and you become, you know, now you're more social, but you're also aggressive. Uh, whereas kava, you know, does the opposite. It, it turns you outward and you're, you're not aggressive at all. You're just the opposite. And the comment that the guy was making was that if you look at, you know, the areas where kale is consumed in Pacific Islands, you don't have near as much crime, uh, violence, all of that. But then you go into the neighboring islands where alcohol is primarily consumed and it's, it's vastly different. Wow. And I remember very early on when, uh, I launched, feel free, one of the, uh, people, actually a person in, uh, Austin said, you need to go down and, and have Paul check who's a fitness gu north of San Diego.
Speaker 2 00:48:32 So you should go down and have him try and see what he thinks. So I, he made the introduction and I went down and Paul drank some, and, you know, 30 minutes later I said, what do you think? And he goes, he goes, it's a heart opener. And I remember thinking, you know, at cringe, that's kinda a hippy dippy term, <laugh>. But uh, you know what I've come to realize since then that what he was describing is true. Because I've, I've had multiple occasions where people have contacted me. In fact, a year or so ago, a lady there in Austin called me and she said, you know, I just want you to know, she says, I ordered your product. And I took it and she said, you know, I enjoyed it. But she said, what I'm calling you about is my husband. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what's, what's this gonna lead to?
Speaker 2 00:49:29 And she said, you know, she said, I gave it to him and didn't tell him what it was. And she said, about 35 minutes later, she said, my two daughters come in the kitchen and they go, what's wrong with daddy? And she said, you know, what do you, what do you mean? She said, well, he's playing with us, he's giggling. He's, he doesn't have his phone out. And she said, you know, you brought my husband back to me. She said he'd kinda turned into a different person. And she said he's, you know, he's totally changed. I think what I'm seeing is that it, it allows you to get outta yourself to turn the noise off inside and actually really connect with the people around you. And that's what's creating the social lubrication. Not, it's not amplifying you like alcohol does. Alcohol kinda amplifies you, this quietens you down, but makes you more feeling towards the others that are around.
Speaker 0 00:50:32 It's almost the opposite. It's like alcohol. You take up more space and with kava and feel free, you're making space for others and it's more of a community. Wow. It's beautiful. So JW for first time user, you know, so what are your recommendations? And I'm also curious if you make, do you make any cocktails or anything with this? Do you do on the rocks or do you ever do that? Or is that sort of
Speaker 2 00:50:57 We have people that are, you all cocktails mean it, you know, lubrication. It, it, it truly is a productivity enhancer. So we have people that, you know, that drink it in the morning and, and replace their, you know, normal caffeine, but they drink it, you know, with different types of juices and they mix it into smoothies and, you know, all kinds of things. I mean, one thing that I will, you know, mention, which everybody that's had it, you know, it does have a very strong taste to it. So it's best to either shoot it like a shot or to mix it in something that, uh, is more pleasure.
Speaker 0 00:51:41 Yeah. And as you said, you know, these natural medicines, you know, around the world, the apples are delicious and they're sweet and they tell you to keep eating 'em. The berries, they're sweet. They tell you to keep eating them. There's almost, there's no upper limit. But when you start, you know, nibbling on a root, you know, nibbling on a, a leaf, you know you're gonna have that astringent, that bitterness that's telling you that this is medicine, maybe not food, right? And so there's, there's, in terms of the taste, it's like that's, that's the medicine to me. So do you recommend people start with, you know, a full bottle or should they, should they start with less?
Speaker 2 00:52:17 No, I, I, we recommend no more than a half a bottle, um, per serving. You know, if you're someone that historically has been sensitive to these types of things, I would not even do that much. It'd be like a third, you know, third of a bottle and just see, you know, how it does, you know, it, it's, it's strong. It's not, you know, like a lot of these things out there you hear, you know, this really does change the way you feel. So, um, I'm always defaulting to, to is more, uh, so I would start out with a little bit and kinda fill your way in and see what the, the best dose is for you.
Speaker 0 00:52:56 Yeah. It makes to, it's like an ice bath. You can always make it colder. You can always drink more, but just like alcohol, right. You know, people know Yeah. How many drinks they can have before they're, you know, off the rails. The difference maybe here is that it is just a, it's like a, you know, it's a two ounce shot, so you gotta, yeah. Be careful. And, and how long would you say JW that it takes to kind of kick in for most people? So I've, I've drank it quite a bit. Of course, I kind of know my thoughts, but like if I, if I drink a half bottle and I'm your average person drinking it for the first time, how long would I wait before deciding if I need more or not?
Speaker 2 00:53:29 Usually it hit, it hits between 15 and 30 minutes, depending on the person, depending on you, something or not usually lasts, you know, between two and five hours. So the first time you try, you know, said I would do a half, half a bottle or less. I would wait, you know, at least an hour or so before I consumed, you know, any, any more of it. Just because you know, it, it can take some time to, to hit.
Speaker 0 00:53:58 And, and as you mentioned, I think before we turned on, there's also an interesting, you're sort of seeing that there's also a potential that the more you drink it, the less you may need. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:54:11 Yeah, I know, you know, I've been doing it now for, you know, close to four years and, you know, when I started I was drinking a full bottle each time that I took, and I've gone down to a half a bottle and now I'm down to about a third of a bottle each time. I don't think I'm drinking less per day, but I'm drinking it in smaller amounts, uh, when I do, when I do drink it.
Speaker 0 00:54:37 That's great. And, and what are your favorite ways to kind of compliment it? Like, do you take it, I know you mentioned it's a productivity enhancer and a social lubricant and, you know, would you recommend it say, before going to the gym or before yoga or, you know, what kind of, what other activities do you think it compliments and pairs best with?
Speaker 2 00:54:55 So ir yoga and I do it religiously, I'll do like a half a bottle about 15, 20 minutes before I work out.
Speaker 0 00:55:14 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:55:15 Um, and then usually, you know, sometime, you know, right after lunch, you know, mid-afternoon I'll hit the wall, you know, physically and mentally I'll do another half, do a third. And then, you know, in the evenings I'll do another, you know, uh, half or so, and that just, you know, I sail through, you know, 16 hour days and just have a wonderful time doing it.
Speaker 0 00:55:45 That's wonderful. And it, it replaces coffee and alcohol, so it's the bookends. It's like,
Speaker 2 00:55:49 It does, and I know that, I know that sounds crazy. It doesn't sound like one thing could do both, but you have to remember that it's two separate plants that, that really one of is more the social lubricant, the alcohol replacement. The other is, is, uh, you know, it's in the coffee family, it's using different, you know, compounds, but it's, it's a, it's an endurance productivity answer. So you're mixing both of those together, which creates the feeling. And the feeling is, you know, a feeling that you feel good, but you're not inebriated. So that's why you can use it, you know, earlier in the day, you know, before you go work out or go to work or whatever.
Speaker 0 00:56:40 Love that. And I got, I got two more questions for you jw. The first one is what's going on in, in your home lab now? You know, are you working, are you cooking on cooking anything else up for the future? Are there any other, is there gonna be another little blue bottle at some point, or what, what are you cooking out?
Speaker 2 00:56:55 Yeah, we actually have, um, we have several things that are in the works right now. I'm hoping to release, uh, the next one, uh, as early as November this year. But I've, you know, I've kinda got now where I enjoy doing this. It's, it's, it's a whole new thing for me. So I, I spend quite a bit of my time experimenting with, and people are now are always sending me different plants from in around the world. Uh, and I've also been going out, uh, I mentioned I was intu uh, the last couple weeks I was out on a sourcing trip. Uh, we went deep into the mountain jungles and, and plants back out, uh, some new ones, uh, to experiment with.
Speaker 0 00:57:44 I love that. And my last question for you, JW and then I'll open it to you if there's anything we left out, but did you come up with the name?
Speaker 2 00:57:52 I did. I did. Yeah. It was, um, I had a, it was a very long process, uh, actually engaged professional marketers to help me with it at the end, didn't go with what they recommended, you know, what I was struggling with was the fact that it does different things. How do you, you know, how do you, uh, cover that? And the thing I like feel free is that, you know, feel free stress, you know, it covers pretty much everything that, uh, you know, it actually does.
Speaker 0 00:58:32 You're both free to be yourself and you're free from your previous addiction. You're Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:58:38 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:58:39 Yeah. It's beautiful. I,
Speaker 2 00:58:41 Beautiful. Very appropriate.
Speaker 0 00:58:43 Yeah, I mean, you've, you definitely nailed it, you know, because it's, it's so, I just remember the first time I was introduced to it and you know, of course the bottle's beautiful. The name is beautiful. It's just like, wow. Of course I'm gonna drink that thing <laugh>. Like, it just looks, it just, it's just really attractive. Like you've done an amazing job.
Speaker 2 00:59:01 It's been, it really has been incredible. We launched, you know, little over two years ago and yeah, it's currently what I understand. It's the fastest growing, you know, new product. It's, it's in the market. It's, we're now we're stores across. It's just, just going crazy.
Speaker 0 00:59:22 That's amazing. That's amazing. JW thank you so much for sharing the story today. Is there, is there anything we left out? Is there anything we left out that you, we
Speaker 2 00:59:30 Need to No, I, I think we, I think we covered everything.
Speaker 0 00:59:33 Amazing. Well, hey, it was a real pleasure getting to know you a little bit, and of course we have a, I think the discount code is just runa for us, but I know you've given us just a, or your team has just created an unbelievable, I think it's 40, is it $40 off or is it 40% off? Whatever it is. It's amazing. It's a huge discount.
Speaker 2 00:59:49 It toga 40 and it's 40% off,
Speaker 0 00:59:53 Which is 40% off.
Speaker 2 00:59:55 Yeah. Nice discount.
Speaker 0 00:59:57 Yeah, so thank you for that and thank you for being here, jw. It was really a pleasure.
Speaker 2 01:00:01 You bet. Thank you.
